"The Cloud" and Energy Rationing

[Amaris]

Quite honestly, I don't think they should have went with the energy rationing until further in the series. First couple of years okay, and then power reserves start to falter.

I agree, they did do that when they ran out of Deuterium in the episode Demons... but then that came out of the blue like the hadn't noticed the fuel gauge getting too low until it was too late. They should have foreshadowed that in an earlier episode.

Lack of resources is something Stargate Universe did much better, plus who doesn't want to see a millennia old spaceship fly through a star.

True. I mean, don't get me wrong, having separate power sources for the holodeck just makes sense! I'm sure the holodeck uses a *ton* of power. It's the "we can't convert it" part that makes me cringe. Over the 3 seasons I've watched of this show, I've seen these people do so many conversions it would make Jehovah's Witnesses blush, but why can't they convert the power from the holodeck? I think just a little more planning could have found a better solution.

Anyway, I was going to start a new thread about it, but why not just use this one? I'm getting sucked into the show now. It took a while, and I had to come at it from a different approach, but now it's starting to grow on me. I said this over in the GTD Voy thread that was closed, but my opinion of the series has been elevated significantly, as I've noticed things this time around that I missed before.

I just finished "Distant Origin," in fact, and it reminded me of the Scopes Monkey trial, and the attack on Darwinian evolution by, what was at the time, the supposed moral authority.

I felt for Professor Gegen at the end, that he had to sell out his future, his ideas, his whole life, to save his new friends. He made that sacrifice in a society where his ideas should have been celebrated, not stifled.

Before that, the episode "Innocence" had me in its grip. I got to see Tuvok dealing with children, and it was a good episode up until Tuvok started singing softly to the children, at which point it became a great episode. I had never seen that side to Tuvok: this loving, caring, nurturing person who was so protective of these little children, and it just tugged at my heart.

Now, I've never had a problem with the visual appeal of the show; Voyager looks great, the sets look great, the technology looks believable. My favorite set is definitely the bridge, though I do have a minor quibble with the way the seating works for the Captain and Commander. I do like the small bench type seats, though, since that allows other crew to sit with the Captain without cluttering up the command deck.

Of course, the characters have really grown on me. I already loved the Doctor (Robert Picardo is excellent in everything), and Tuvok, and I've found Janeway to be awesome, but now I've gained an affinity for Kes, Tom, B'elanna, and even Neelix has grown on me. Ethan Phillips does a stellar job when he's allowed to tone down Neelix just a bit. I'm still having issues with Harry, but I do see him as more of an overeager young man just wanted to prove he's good at what he does. I'm hoping he grows on me.

Chakotay is still growing on me, but I wish they would have let Beltran play a modern native American, and then let him use his own beliefs instead of making them up. Using native Americans, but then removing any of the identities which made them who they were is more than a bit silly.

Still, the show has really elevated itself, and part of it was what I came to accept: the science isn't real, but this is 300 years in the future, and if I can accept the ship moving at warp, using inverse tachyon beams, transporting people from one place to another by breaking them down into their subatomic particles and reassembling them on the other side, I can accept the "science" as being part of that world as well.

They do appear to be primarily a science ship, though I think Chakotay mentioned that they were designed for battle. I can't recall, so if any of you remember, let me know.

 

[starburst]

First of all great post... Voyager was never my favourite the first time around however I enjoyed the series, I have been enjoying a rather bizarre method of watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager recently hoping though epsisodes on my Tivo.

I just finished "Distant Origin," in fact, and it reminded me of the Scopes Monkey trial, and the attack on Darwinian evolution by, what was at the time, the supposed moral authority.

I felt for Professor Gegen at the end, that he had to sell out his future, his ideas, his whole life, to save his new friends. He made that sacrifice in a society where his ideas should have been celebrated, not stifled.

It does sound very familiar to anyone who has read even basic history without gaining a qualification in it... sadly very similar to some beliefs of individuals and groups living along side us today also.

Now, I've never had a problem with the visual appeal of the show; Voyager looks great, the sets look great, the technology looks believable. My favorite set is definitely the bridge, though I do have a minor quibble with the way the seating works for the Captain and Commander. I do like the small bench type seats, though, since that allows other crew to sit with the Captain without cluttering up the command deck.

Voyager is indeed a very good looking ship both inside and out, yes there are angles where she doesn't look her best but so do the majority if not all Starships.

The dual command seating is the main thing I dislike about the Bridge although it was about time the Captain gained access to a meaningful display / input screen!

Of course, the characters have really grown on me. I already loved the Doctor (Robert Picardo is excellent in everything), and Tuvok, and I've found Janeway to be awesome, but now I've gained an affinity for Kes, Tom, B'elanna, and even Neelix has grown on me. Ethan Phillips does a stellar job when he's allowed to tone down Neelix just a bit. I'm still having issues with Harry, but I do see him as more of an overeager young man just wanted to prove he's good at what he does. I'm hoping he grows on me.

Chakotay is still growing on me, but I wish they would have let Beltran play a modern native American, and then let him use his own beliefs instead of making them up. Using native Americans, but then removing any of the identities which made them who they were is more than a bit silly.

They all had some great stand out episodes, I have always thought Voyager was where new blood in the writing cast were needed (and more so again when it came to Enterprise) as they did slip into TNG mode too often.

Something with a little more serialisation would have been great, of course we had some running story lines with the Doctor, Seven and Paris/Torres, but some longer lasting issues would have added a new level.

I guess when you have replicators your only issue is power unlike Stargate Universe where they had to deal with finding food and water ontop of fixing life support and power. Voyager started off state of the art and seemed to stay that way, sometimes I wish they had broken something which could not have easily been fixed... in essence remove the end of episode reset button.

They do appear to be primarily a science ship, though I think Chakotay mentioned that they were designed for battle. I can't recall, so if any of you remember, let me know.

That could be said about most Starfleet ships, any of those designed with any sort of range in mind would be built with the ability to defend itself.

Oddly though Voyager albeit much smaller than some of her sister Classes, especially the Galaxy Class, she is pretty well armed with many more Phaser emplacements and double the torpedo launchers in comparison.

 

[Amaris]

First of all great post... Voyager was never my favourite the first time around however I enjoyed the series, I have been enjoying a rather bizarre method of watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager recently hoping though epsisodes on my Tivo.

Yeah, I'm watching it via Netflix. I did a rewatch of ENT a few years back, and ended up liking it better than I had previously.

It does sound very familiar to anyone who has read even basic history without gaining a qualification in it... sadly very similar to some beliefs of individuals and groups living along side us today also.

Agreed. I feel the story is still quite relevant today, perhaps moreso in light of what we're seeing with science in school.

Voyager is indeed a very good looking ship both inside and out, yes there are angles where she doesn't look her best but so do the majority if not all Starships.

The dual command seating is the main thing I dislike about the Bridge although it was about time the Captain gained access to a meaningful display / input screen!

Yes! I love the console computer. All I could think when I saw it for the first time was "It's about damned time!"

They all had some great stand out episodes, I have always thought Voyager was where new blood in the writing cast were needed (and more so again when it came to Enterprise) as they did slip into TNG mode too often.

Something with a little more serialisation would have been great, of course we had some running story lines with the Doctor, Seven and Paris/Torres, but some longer lasting issues would have added a new level.

I guess when you have replicators your only issue is power unlike Stargate Universe where they had to deal with finding food and water ontop of fixing life support and power. Voyager started off state of the art and seemed to stay that way, sometimes I wish they had broken something which could not have easily been fixed... in essence remove the end of episode reset button.

Good point. It comes down to how do you show scarcity in a post scarcity technologically advanced society? You have to make artificial limits, and sometimes it shows.

I haven't encountered the reset button yet, but I'm only now getting to season 4, which I hear the seasons ahead use the reset button quite a bit. I hope I like season 4, because I have been rather pleased so far.

That could be said about most Starfleet ships, any of those designed with any sort of range in mind would be built with the ability to defend itself.

Oddly though Voyager albeit much smaller than some of her sister Classes, especially the Galaxy Class, she is pretty well armed with many more Phaser emplacements and double the torpedo launchers in comparison.

Yeah, the ship looks like it can defend itself quite well. Something that did surprise me was that in the episode "Innocence," Janeway says the ship has enough matter/antimatter fuel to last for 3 years. That's surprisingly low for a starship, isn't it? I mean, a Nimitz class carrier can go up to 20 years without refueling due to it's atomic reactors. I guess I always assumed starships were similar.

 

[T'Girl]

I'm sure the holodeck uses a *ton* of power.

One way to avoid energy rationing of the holodeck might have been to have a character state that the holodeck simply doesn't use all that much power, there'd be no reason to shut it down and divert the power elsewhere.

However if the holograms (textured forcefields) were joined by replicated items (like food) then the power usage would increase.

Oddly though Voyager albeit much smaller than some of her sister Classes, especially the Galaxy Class, she is pretty well armed with many more Phaser emplacements and double the torpedo launchers in comparison.

The Enterprise Dee had two torpedo launchers (really three) to Voyager's four, however Enterprise could launch multiple torpedoes simultaneously from a single tube, Voyager only one at a time per tube.

 

[Tosk]

The Enterprise Dee had two torpedo launchers (really three)

Where's the third one?

 

[Ithekro]

There was supposedly one on the saucer facing aft. In the recess where it docks with the star drive.

I wonder if they could have gotten around some of their rationing problems by using the holodeck and having a holo-restaurant in there. Severs whatever the computer could replicate, and doesn't cut down on the use of the warp core for getting home, and leaves Neelix to not need to cook for the crew.

 

[Amaris]

According to one of the early episodes, holographic food doesn't stay in your system.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What episode was that in?

If it tastes just as good that would be a helluva way to diet.

 

[Amaris]

What episode was that in?

If it tastes just as good that would be a helluva way to diet.

It's from this episode, "The Cloud." Tom creates Sandrine's, and invites Harry in. As they go to drink some wine, Harry is worried he'll get drunk, and Tom states that it's holographic food, and says something to the effect that it doesn't actually stay in your system.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Cool. That's nice they put that in there since we have all wondered about holographic food.

:: eats 3 liter tub of holographic chocolate ice cream ::

 

[Tosk]

It makes no sense in that context though. Food would be replicated when it needs to be consumed.

 

[Amaris]

Cool. That's nice they put that in there since we have all wondered about holographic food.

:: eats 3 liter tub of holographic chocolate ice cream ::

Seriously!

It makes no sense in that context though. Food would be replicated when it needs to be consumed.

Maybe that's why the energy usage is so low. If it doesn't have to actually replicate solid matter, maybe that saves on power? I'm not sure, just guessing on this one.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So I guess we can safely speculate that the energy required to run holodecks is some photonic pittance that has nothing to offer the running of a ship?

As to the eating if you really pigged out and spent a few hours eating calorie free holodeck food you might end up with an excess of stomach acid as your stomach would be getting the message to ready itself for digestion with all that chewing. I bet prior to the massive night long holodeck banquets I am now fantasizing about everyone takes a little digestive aperitif.

 

[Amaris]

So I guess we can safely speculate that the energy required to run holodecks is some photonic pittance that has nothing to offer the running of a ship?

As to the eating if you really pigged out and spent a few hours eating calorie free holodeck food you might end up with an excess of stomach acid as your stomach would be getting the message to ready itself for digestion with all that chewing. I bet prior to the massive night long holodeck banquets I am now fantasizing about everyone takes a little digestive aperitif.

You've put a lot of thought into this.

I am so proud.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I am very hungry.

Guess I better go eat some vegetables, sh;ak;kn;.

 

[Tosk]

I can honestly say, if given the choice between replicated food and complicated forcefields pressing on my mouth, tongue, throat, stomach, etc...I'll take the replicated food.

If you stayed on the holodeck long enough, would the forcefields keep doing their job until it's time for waste extraction?

 

[Amaris]

That's... something I'd rather not explore.

 

[Melakon]

Perhaps whatever's powering the holdeck also powers the holo-emitters in Sickbay. Then there's the matter of small holographic simulations that can be called up from the desk computers, as well as whatever is powering the main viewscreen, which depending on camera angles, sometimes seems to be more than a flat screen. It's probably in play in Astrometrics as well.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I can honestly say, if given the choice between replicated food and complicated forcefields pressing on my mouth, tongue, throat, stomach, etc...I'll take the replicated food.

If you stayed on the holodeck long enough, would the forcefields keep doing their job until it's time for waste extraction?

BOLDLY going..

Photons be free!

 

[Amaris]

So I just watched "Demon," and I found it to be pretty interesting. It was neat to see a Class Y planet instead of the usual Class M planets we see all of the time. I also enjoyed the interaction between the Doctor and Neelix. Those two are a fun pairing, and Robert Picardo and Ethan Phillips work off of one another quite easily.

Of course, energy comes up again in a big way in this episode, and I couldn't help but hear Harry Kim say that they had shut off all of the power sources to save what deuterium they had left. He included the holodecks in that power saving move. If the holodeck has its own power supply, why would they have to shut them down? If they have to use deuterium to power them, then what makes it impossible to convert energy from the holodeck to the main system power reserves?

Seriously, they should have thought of a better way to make that work, because it has come back to bite them in the ass a number of times already. Yeah, yeah, I could just ignore it, but I'm a Star Trek nerd; ignoring it will only make me focus on it all the more.

On another note, if they can only move at quarter impulse due to the energy shortage, how did they reach a system half a light year away so quickly? At light speed, that's six months. So at quarter of that (being generous), it's 2 years.