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The characters' ages in TOS (a discussion, not a question)

Commander Kielbasa

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Something I've come to find interesting as of late is that even when we're first introduced to them, our crew is not a bunch of fresh faced kids on a voyage to the unknown. The show makes it more than clear that this five year mission is not the main cast's first rodeo in space; Spock spent around 12 years with Pike; Kirk was already serving on ships over a decade prior; McCoy is I think already middle aged (at least, Kelley was - almost 50 when the show ended). The only kid of the bunch is Chekhov; the rest are veteran hands. While they're dealing with unknowns, you get hints that they're old hands at this already in a sense.

The show debuted in 1966, right around the time the so-called "generation gap" in American society was growing ever wider, and yet our heroes were NOT the Baby Boomer kids, teens and young adults who were watching the show, but men who were almost (by 1960s standards) middle aged. Kirk I believe states in one episode that he's 34. He's closing in on 40 - in a time when a popular expression said not to trust anyone over 30, and when 40 was considered "old."

I find it interesting that Gene chose to present as us heroes who were middle aged people even at the outset, when he could've easily I'm sure have chosen to go the route the Kelvin series has and shown a fresh crew straight out of the Academy. I'm happy he did what he did, but the thought is interesting to ponder - what if TOS had been led by a cast of 20 somethings, portraying essentially new kids on the block. I think in some ways it was a daring move for the time period and especially with consideration for the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) young people were the target audience. One has to remember, the 1960s were a very different time from today. 40 was not "the new 20". I know my mother (who is 62 now) said when her father passed away at age 55, she viewed him at the time as an old man who had lived a full life. When my other grandfather was on the verge of turning 40 in 1969 he became obsessed with mortality and believed he wouldn't survive the year, as he was now "old." Anecdotes aside, it speaks to perhaps a different conception of age and aging than we operate under now (I wouldn't know as I'm only 26, so I was not even a thought when TOS first aired).

It speaks to the genius of the show that in such a time when authority was being constantly questioned and older figures were viewed with disdain suspicion, Star Trek managed to make young kids and young men want to be Captain Kirk - a figure of authority himself, and a guy who was already old enough to be their older brother or even their dad. People related to these characters despite them literally being part of "the establishment" within the context of their show. In an era where the military was looked down upon, Starfleet, while not necessarily totally a military outfit, was idealized by kids. That's brilliant. The characters were THAT likable, and the show THAT fascinating and exciting, that it transcended factors which could've been barriers to success, especially in the time period in which it came out.

I'd love to hear any additional thoughts on the matter.
 
At that time, the TV industry may have been playing lip service to embracing the youth movement as customers, but make no mistake that "the establishment" was in full control. A lot of shows featured hippies and flower children only to make fun of them. Even the TOS "hippie episode" was a cautionary tale, warning kids that the dream might be an illusion. Even the Mod Squad, on the surface, a show about young people helping young people, was basically telling us they can only help if they're narcs, part of the establishment.

As for origins and timelines, it was much more typical back then to have the first episode of a show drop us right into the middle of the characters' lives. The fascination with origin stories is a more modern contrivance. TOS started a year or so into the mission; Hawaii 5-0 gave us a well-established police unit on the job; Mission: Impossible's first episode was clearly not their first mission.
 
The influence of the counterculture tends to get overstated in '60s retro. It was, after all, the counterculture, which means that there was a mainstream culture that it stood in opposition to. It wasn't novel or daring that the show gave us experienced, 30+ officers, it was standard casting of the time for any number of genres, including Westerns and war shows. The standard then was JFK-style leading men--handsome, youthful, and vigorous, but mature and experienced. Shatner and Hunter both fit this style. If they'd gone for "I was a teenage starship captain," it likely would have hurt the credibility of the show in that age...nobody would have taken it seriously.

Prominent among the other real-life heroes of the decade were the astronauts. All three of the Apollo 11 astronauts were born in 1930, roughly the same age as Shatner, and on either side of 39 at the time of the mission. And not all under-30s of the era identified with the counterculture. For every hippie getting stoned in the Haight, there must have been at least one other from middle America who was serving in Vietnam.

As @Kor beat me to pointing out, the show was in development from 1964-1966. The hippie movement didn't really become a thing in the mainstream culture until 1967. The people bringing us the show were over-30 WWII vets. And as @Forbin touches upon, just look at "The Way to Eden," which tends to be considered a very dated episode. If the show had catered to the counterculture, it likely wouldn't have enjoyed the success that it did in syndication in the '70s.

Then there's the sponsorship issue. TV shows exist to sell products. College-age kids who were "dropping out" of mainstream culture and going off to form back-to-nature communes probably weren't buying a lot of RCA color televisions. As for their demographic power...see the 1972 presidential election, in which the "silent majority" propelled Nixon to an overwhelming victory against the counterculture-friendly George McGovern.
 
... The standard then was JFK-style leading men--handsome, youthful, and vigorous, but mature and experienced. Shatner and Hunter both fit this style. If they'd gone for "I was a teenage starship captain," it likely would have hurt the credibility of the show in that age...nobody would have taken it seriously. ...

Interestingly, just a few years before Trek, Hunter starred as Jesus in the 1961 movie King of Kings, having done the filming when he was about 33. But due to his youthful appearance, some critics mocked the movie as "I Was a Teenage Jesus." :lol:

Kor
 
Interestingly, just a few years before Trek, Hunter starred as Jesus in the 1961 movie King of Kings, having done the filming when he was about 33. But due to his youthful appearance, some critics mocked the movie as "I Was a Teenage Jesus." :lol:

Kor

Also there is the fact that when JFK was running for President in 1960, at age 43, it was thought in some quarters he was too young, and wasn't taken seriously. When LBJ was running his own campaign that year he quipped that the man in charge ought to have a little gray in his hair. No one would accuse a 43 year old of being a "kid" nowadays. Interesting how times change.
 
My view of the TOS characters is influenced by Enterprise: The First Adventure which, similar to the 2009 movie, had many of the characters fresh-faced out of the academy at the start of TOS.
 
The influence of the counterculture tends to get overstated in '60s retro. It was, after all, the counterculture, which means that there was a mainstream culture that it stood in opposition to

Yes.

Ah, the Frankfurt School policies...
 
I don't agree that Kirk at 34 was middle aged. That's young, for a captain, whether a captain of a navy cruiser today or a starship tomorrow. You want your captain to have experience with ships, experience leading a crew, seeing different situations first hand not just from history or reports.

McCoy and Scotty, yes, middle aged.

Spock as a Vulcan doesn't translate very well. Vulcans age differently. Yes, he'd been on a ship for a long time, yet he was also young enough to be going through pon farr for the first time.

The junior officers, Uhura, Sulu, Chekhov, Chapel, were all pretty young. Maybe not their first time on a starship, but probably in their 20s.
 
I think some of the characters' ages are canon, although some are bit more wibbly wobbly. I really like that they are not all young and inexperienced

I think Spock was a lieutenant under Pike and was most likely mid twenties there, which would put him at least somewhere between Kirk and McCoy's age.

I'm not so sure about Chapel either. She'd had a scientific career prior to signing up, although admittedly we don't know for how long, and she was at least part way through an MD on top of that. She was most likely early thirties.

Rand was unofficially 24 in Miri (a line excised from the script) but I've seen some suggestion that a graphic in Flashback might have listed her DOB as being a year older than Kirk, similar to the real actors. Charlie X suggests that the latter is more plausible. She's also a senior non-com so a few miles on the clock makes more sense.

I've also seen a role-playing game that listed the ages as follows (presumably around the time of season 2)

Kirk 34
Spock 40
McCoy 40
Scotty 45
Sulu 29
Uhura 27
Chapel 31
Chekov 22
Rand 26 (or 35 if a year older than Kirk)
 
In season 3, De Kelley turned 49 in January of 1969, and Jimmy Doohan also turned 49 in March. I believe that Grace Lee Whitney was actually a year older than Shatner IIRC. The only instance I recall of an age being stated in the episodes was Chekov saying he was 22 in WMFA. Not sure if ages are ever stated in any of the James Blish Star Trek series books.
 
Rand was unofficially 24 in Miri (a line excised from the script) but I've seen some suggestion that a graphic in Flashback might have listed her DOB as being a year older than Kirk, similar to the real actors. Charlie X suggests that the latter is more plausible. She's also a senior non-com so a few miles on the clock makes more sense.
It seemed to be a thing in TV of the era to unrealistically understate an actress's age. I recall examples in Adventures of Superman and Emergency! when Lois Lane's and Dixie McCall's ages were stated to be around 10 and 15 years younger than the actresses were at the time, respectively.
 
It seemed to be a thing in TV of the era to unrealistically understate an actress's age. I recall examples in Adventures of Superman and Emergency! when Lois Lane's and Dixie McCall's ages were stated to be around 10 and 15 years younger than the actresses were at the time, respectively.

Ah, Emergency! One of my favorite series of the 70s. I remember having such a crush on Randy Mantooth! :luvlove:
 
Worst case I've seen is Steve Mcqueen playing a 17-year old in the Blob. He looked about 40. Although John Travolta and Olivia Newton John were about 15 years too old to play teenagers too!
 
Early versions of the premise held that Rand was supposed to be old enough to have known Spock for years. I don't know that that carried over to production, but it seems plausible. Especially since she didn't slap his face for that crack at the end of The Enemy Within.
 
Worst case I've seen is Steve Mcqueen playing a 17-year old in the Blob. He looked about 40. Although John Travolta and Olivia Newton John were about 15 years too old to play teenagers too!

In season one of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, our main cast were all supposed to be high school sophomores (around, what, 15 years old?). Sarah Michell Geller was 20, Alyson Hannigan was 23. Fairly typical ages for actors playing high school kids. However... Nick Brendon was 26, and Charisma Carpenter was the oldest at 27! So when they graduated high school 3 years later, Cordelia was 30! And as gorgeous as Charisma is, she never looked like a teenager on the show, she looked like a gorgeous grown woman in her 20s.

David Boreanaz probably doesn't count since he was a 200-year-old vampire. But was 28 at the beginning of the show, playing someone who was supposed to at least appear young enough to have a relationship with a sophomore girl.
 
Casting 20-somethings as teenagers is something I'd consider to be a separate trope that lasts to this day. Trying to pass a woman of around 45 off as a 30-year-old is another thing entirely. If anything, they've swung to the opposite approach for mature characters these days...cast somebody who's too young for the role and try to pass them off as being older.
 
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