Just look at the Pakleds… there’re not all there mentally, and they have powerful tech. Geordi offered that much of what they had was stolen. I can see the Chalnoth using brute force to take what they want. Just my two cents.
The Chalnoth (TNG: Allegiance)
- Thread starter MarkusTay
- Start date
If what Picard said in the episode does accurately describe the Chalnoth as a whole, then the Pakled have an advanced society in comparison, with queens, kings and even emperors, espionage and only occasional political unrest.
So are you proposing they have automated the basic processes of their society, or perhaps some sort of Ancient Sparta-like deal with some equivalent of helots (biological or mechanical) to run their world for them so that they can indulge in endless fighting?
Why not?
It would be an interesting take on a post scarcity society.
It would be an interesting take on a post scarcity society.
Assuming that even applies to the Chalnoth...
Well, they probably have only the stongest of their species survive, which likely means a smaller total population on their world. Smaller population usually means less resources are used, so scarcity is probably not an issue.
I just came across another, (philosophically) related, one. The original episode - and I mean THE original (pilot), it establishes that on the planet of Rigel VII is the barbaric Kalar, who are more human-looking version of the Chalnoth. Bestial, and primitive (possibly more-so than the Chalnoth, whom seem to at least know what other species are). They are kind of like a cross between neanderthals and vikings with a medieval level society. And the episode is indeed considered canon. We also have it state in other ST shows that on Rigel VII is the home of the Lagrange (UFP) colony, and at least one crewman was born there. So, ummmm... did we wipe them out? Or did they kill themselves soon after Captain Pike beat up their leader? Did we force them into reservations? I realize the episode takes place before the TOS, but Enterprise has established that some form of the Prime Directive was being followed... yet Pike went on down there and got into a Donnybrook with the lot of them... and at some point we built colonies on THEIR planet. Seems they were right in being angry and hostile.
I'm just coming across way too many examples where this supposed Prime Directive gets completely ignored whenever it suits Starfleet to do so. The only way I can reasonably 'head canon' this is to say many species don't have any sort of Prime Directive, and they make contact with every planet they come across. Then at some point, they meet the Federation - and perhaps even become part of it - and then whatever worlds they have already contacted can also be contacted (because its already too late for the Prime Directive to apply). Either, way, though, I've come to the same conclusion - the PD is meaningless because the next civilization that happens by WILL make contact with them, and then the Federation.
I'm just coming across way too many examples where this supposed Prime Directive gets completely ignored whenever it suits Starfleet to do so. The only way I can reasonably 'head canon' this is to say many species don't have any sort of Prime Directive, and they make contact with every planet they come across. Then at some point, they meet the Federation - and perhaps even become part of it - and then whatever worlds they have already contacted can also be contacted (because its already too late for the Prime Directive to apply). Either, way, though, I've come to the same conclusion - the PD is meaningless because the next civilization that happens by WILL make contact with them, and then the Federation.
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We didn't see what the Nausicaans were like until "Tapestry," a while after the Chalnoth were introduced. And the Kzinti would have been too expensive to use both for legal and makeup reasons. So they did need to come up with someone new that might need to eat Picard & Co. to survive.
The Chalnoth could have come up with warp on their own because they're aliens. They're different from us and might have found their own strange way to it. Maybe it took them ten times longer, or, who knows, half.
Or maybe they were visited by Breen or Ferengi traders who wanted local resources or them as mercenaries, and they got it from them. Hell, maybe most of their technology is alien-made – alien-operated even. Different people need different things from different people. If all parties are satisfied, agreements are made.
The Federation visited because they're no longer a pre-warp society at that point.
I find them kind of intriguing. They're background aliens that flesh out the broader interstellar community. Anarchists and pirates. We all know who the big guys are, but it's interesting to think about Yridian information dealers too, and Kressari botanical DNA traders, Nausicaan or Corvallen mercenaries, Orion mafiosos, Ferengi and Xepolite free traders...and what is the Nyberrite Alliance, and who are the Mathenites that offer sanctuary to Cardassians?
EDIT: I'm just going to leave this here for further contemplation.
The Chalnoth could have come up with warp on their own because they're aliens. They're different from us and might have found their own strange way to it. Maybe it took them ten times longer, or, who knows, half.
Or maybe they were visited by Breen or Ferengi traders who wanted local resources or them as mercenaries, and they got it from them. Hell, maybe most of their technology is alien-made – alien-operated even. Different people need different things from different people. If all parties are satisfied, agreements are made.
The Federation visited because they're no longer a pre-warp society at that point.
I find them kind of intriguing. They're background aliens that flesh out the broader interstellar community. Anarchists and pirates. We all know who the big guys are, but it's interesting to think about Yridian information dealers too, and Kressari botanical DNA traders, Nausicaan or Corvallen mercenaries, Orion mafiosos, Ferengi and Xepolite free traders...and what is the Nyberrite Alliance, and who are the Mathenites that offer sanctuary to Cardassians?
EDIT: I'm just going to leave this here for further contemplation.
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Yeah, we find out tons about fan (or writer) favorites, like Vulcans and Klingons, but then we have all these cultures who have literally been surrounded by the Federation, but aren't members. Its weird, because what would their status be? Obviously they have to be allowed to leave their home systems/region of space, meaning they can travel freely through UFP space, even though they are not Federation. But are there rules to all that? What if the Chalnoth, Yridians, or Nausicans allied with someone the Federation was in a state of aggression with? I believe canonically the Nausicans were allied with the Klingons during one war - so how do you allow a lone civilization who doesn't really like you full access to your space? Does the Federation board them and check their cargoes? Its seems like these are subjects the writers have completely avoided. Even a powerful group like the First Federation (I still think its just the one ship and little dude LOL) has become completely surrounded by the UFP space - how do other cultures even interact with them then? Its established that the Gorn and Orions have contact - so how does that work in the modern era? In fact, how does anything work regarding the Orions these days? (aside from modern movies and shows liking to show Orion crewmembers in the background).
Sorry for the Threadomancy, buuuut...
Doing some research for my 'amalgam' universe, I stumbled upon an interesting tidbit - The Chalnoth are canon to Doctor Who as well.
Now, it wouldn't be the first time I saw references to ST in Dr. Who, because there have been cross-overs a plenty, and in the Whoniverse, EVERYTHING is 'Alpha Canon' - there is no 'Beta'. So ST is canon in that universe/multiverse. In fact, one can reason the canon of every universe is canon to DW (except SW - not sure if they ever did a crossover... Lucas is tight like that). However, this wasn't from a crossover, it was just a VERY similar species with the same exact name. One has to wonder if the DW writers just borrowed the name from ST (wouldn't be the first time they used ST material), or if they both just happen to makeup the same name for a similar species.
Both franchises, BTW, use TONS of stuff from Douglas Adams line of books (Hitchhiker's Guide, etc.), which is another connection. Anyhow, maybe the Chalnoth are a multi-dimensional species, which is also suspected of the Tholians? That would be neat. If a bunch got stranded on a planet in the ST universe at some point, that could explain why they seem primitive, yet still have tech.
Doing some research for my 'amalgam' universe, I stumbled upon an interesting tidbit - The Chalnoth are canon to Doctor Who as well.
Now, it wouldn't be the first time I saw references to ST in Dr. Who, because there have been cross-overs a plenty, and in the Whoniverse, EVERYTHING is 'Alpha Canon' - there is no 'Beta'. So ST is canon in that universe/multiverse. In fact, one can reason the canon of every universe is canon to DW (except SW - not sure if they ever did a crossover... Lucas is tight like that). However, this wasn't from a crossover, it was just a VERY similar species with the same exact name. One has to wonder if the DW writers just borrowed the name from ST (wouldn't be the first time they used ST material), or if they both just happen to makeup the same name for a similar species.
Both franchises, BTW, use TONS of stuff from Douglas Adams line of books (Hitchhiker's Guide, etc.), which is another connection. Anyhow, maybe the Chalnoth are a multi-dimensional species, which is also suspected of the Tholians? That would be neat. If a bunch got stranded on a planet in the ST universe at some point, that could explain why they seem primitive, yet still have tech.
Under site rules, anything under 1 year isn't dead, and posting on it is totally legit.
Well, in that case, sorry I didn't 'go deep'. lol
And to call myself out, I was unaware of the site rules... I just took a shot in the dark. I haven't been around here in a few months (moving and stuff), so I wasn't even sure how old this thread I made was.
And to further elaborate (oh no!), I come across plenty of names/species franchises have in common, that are either based on a real planet (Antareans, Alpha Centaurians, etc.), or based on something that is too common a concept (reptilians, insectoids, etc.) I just thought 'Chalnoth' was odd-enough to point it out, especially since I had already made this thread awhile back.
And to call myself out, I was unaware of the site rules... I just took a shot in the dark. I haven't been around here in a few months (moving and stuff), so I wasn't even sure how old this thread I made was.
And to further elaborate (oh no!), I come across plenty of names/species franchises have in common, that are either based on a real planet (Antareans, Alpha Centaurians, etc.), or based on something that is too common a concept (reptilians, insectoids, etc.) I just thought 'Chalnoth' was odd-enough to point it out, especially since I had already made this thread awhile back.
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If the revived thread shows meaningful communication, the mods will likely leave it be. If not, it typically gets locked. I remember awhile back, there was a "what is your head canon" thread someone revived, but it got shut down before I could post on it. Too bad, since i had a lot of head canon.
You could always create your own.
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