They worry about threats to the Federation, and perform covert operations to make sure those threats are dealt with. How is that different from Picard’s Celtris III mission?
The Celtris III Covert Mission
- Thread starter Mojochi
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They worry about threats to the Federation, and perform covert operations to make sure those threats are dealt with. How is that different from Picard’s Celtris III mission?
I never cared for S31 for reasons just like this example, but I suppose this is about the only explanation that works. Seems so weird that so much of the admiralty would be out of touch on that, & hanging Picard out to dry. It sort of sends the message "Hey, if you're a boyscout… you're just fucking bait then, chump". It also kind of paints Picard being the whistleblower, a year later on that Pegasus thing, as being a little payback
S31 steps in when Starfleet isn't getting the job done (in their estimation). In this case, Starfleet was already addressing the situation.
Pshhh...the Cardies are small potatoes
The thing is, neither Picard nor Crusher were trained in covert operations afaik. Crusher is a doctor, not a Navy Seal! And once we learn that Starfleet already has a secret covert division, it all ends up making very little sense. And I don’t accept the excuse that the Cardassians are ‘small potatoes.’ They were building up a secret fleet!
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S31 is some special division of Starfleet intelligence that handles the big problems that threaten the existence of the Federation(according to them). Starfleet has plenty of resources to call on(like Starfleet intelligence, for instance) before they hit the nuclear option. And I'm sure Starfleet has special infiltrator teams. We see in DS9 that they have space Marines. What elite groups exist within that organization?
Besides, S31 supposedly acts autonomously. We don't know how high up the chain you have to get to be able to call on them, or even be aware of them. S31 probably knew everything that was going on anyway.
Where was S31 when Sisko's mentor was trying to take over Earth? That would seem a greater threat, and they apparently weren't worried about it.
Besides, S31 supposedly acts autonomously. We don't know how high up the chain you have to get to be able to call on them, or even be aware of them. S31 probably knew everything that was going on anyway.
Where was S31 when Sisko's mentor was trying to take over Earth? That would seem a greater threat, and they apparently weren't worried about it.
So again, if that was the case, why send two people who have no covert infiltration experience?
You mean Admiral Leighton? He wasn't trying to take over Earth. He was trying to declare martial law on Earth to deal with the threat of the Dominion. He wasn't a threat to the Federation.
He was trying to institute a military dictatorship with himself as the dictator. This is contrary to S31's stated goals.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to be a dictator. He was attempting a military coup, yes, but for all we know he was doing it under Section 31's nose.
Because it's a trap, & more people probably know that than is being revealed. No matter who they send, they'll be caught or dead... and it's a treaty violation anyhow.
So apart from having to send the technical expert (Picard), because it's a time critical crisis, that presumably offers no ability to get others up to speed, it really doesn't matter in the least who the hell else they send. Might as well just let him pick whoever he wants for his dead end mission, & limit the size to limit the exposure.
Besides, on Star Trek, we often get led to believe all Starfleet officers get some cross-specialization training. None of the stuff they were training to do was coming off as new for any of them. Why would you risk your best infiltration operatives on a dead end mission, when you have to send the patsy Picard anyhow, & he's already got people on his crew who are at least somewhat capable of being sent to die or be captured?
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Indeed, in real life when the British government and MI6 (as well as the rest of the Allies) found out about Nazi Germany having access to heavy water, they know that the Nazis would get nuclear bombs from that, so they began to successfully sabotage Norsk Hydro's Vermok hydro plant with a ton of attacks.
He took on said mission because he was ordered to, not because he had daddy issues; at least he was a true hero, unlike a certain guy people love because he stole government info based on baseless bullshit about people being spied on by governments that was not true.
Actually it was explained in the story - Somehow Picard was one of three Captains with the knowledge to determine IF the Cardassians had created the weapon (He had experience with the type of Waves they were using).
Personally, in my mind Adm. Nechayev actually wanted Picard dead (for his actions in TNG S5 - "I Borg" in failing to try and completely end the Borg threat when he had the chance); and figured sending him on a suicide mission like this was the best way to do it.
Personally, in my mind Adm. Nechayev actually wanted Picard dead (for his actions in TNG S5 - "I Borg" in failing to try and completely end the Borg threat when he had the chance); and figured sending him on a suicide mission like this was the best way to do it.
I agree, I never gave this aspect of the story too much thought, especially after all the "only ship" situations, just change it to "person" and you see the huge negative effect a post scarcity society has on strength of will and imagination, the Federation seems to have a lack of talent.
So maybe it was an inside job, and Nechayev would be rid of Picard and it couldn't be traced back to her. But I really don't think the writers were capable of that much forethought, or if one did it would have been vetoed by someone. They did go out of their way to make almost every visiting Admiral stupid or a victim of takeover throughout the whole 7 seasons and even into the movies.
I thought they did a better job with Nechayev than with most of the one-shot admirals in this regard. It was nice seeing Picard regret his hostile interactions with Nechayev and take steps to try to remedy them.
It bothered me a little that DS9 wound that back, even if it didn't really happen.
It bothered me a little that DS9 wound that back, even if it didn't really happen.
I actually like TNG Nechayev. She really seems to know her shit, & she doesn't seem imho like someone who'd be actively trying to get Picard killed. Offering up her officers to the slaughter for the greater good however? Well, maybe I wouldn't give her that much benefit of the doubt
There should've been more Nechayev in Star Trek, she was great.
And super sexy too.
And super sexy too.
Perhaps more recurring Admirals in general. Haden for outright "deal with this or there will be war" missions, Nechayev for more byzantine "do this, you don't need to know why" ones, perhaps somebody like this never-seen Fujisaki guy for an outright adversary who has the formal authority but clearly wants to do harm, evil and generally naughty things. Folks Picard can't get rid of, bad pennies instead of one-offs.
Recurring fellow Captains would have been fun, too. A few more DeSoto appearances, perhaps - competitors rather than adversaries, confidantes instead of threats. Possibly somebody like Jellico, possibly a whippersnapper like Scott. But these would be harder to justify than recurring Admirals.
Timo Saloniemi
Recurring fellow Captains would have been fun, too. A few more DeSoto appearances, perhaps - competitors rather than adversaries, confidantes instead of threats. Possibly somebody like Jellico, possibly a whippersnapper like Scott. But these would be harder to justify than recurring Admirals.
Timo Saloniemi
There should've been more Nechayev in Star Trek, she was great.
And super sexy too.
I agree basically with all of these, but didn't there seem to be a strong undercurrent of "only Picard is right no matter how wrong he is" through out the show. I got that vibe a lot, Jelico being the #1 example.
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