The Captain's Table

[CaptainGren]

I've just started reading the Captain Table book (well, book and miniseries) and I was wondering...
This might seem like a rather stupid question, but is it just Captains or can people (such as Edward Jellico or Nechayev) who used to be Captains but were promoted still walk in?

 

[Christopher]

I believe the gimmick is that everyone who's ever commanded a ship for any length of time has access. (Although having the conn while the actual captain is off-ship apparently doesn't count, since Sulu didn't get in until he got the Excelsior. I guess the whole "You're captain now" thing in the new movie muddies that issue, though.)

 

[Snaploud]

I've just started reading the Captain Table book (well, book and miniseries) and I was wondering...
This might seem like a rather stupid question, but is it just Captains or can people (such as Edward Jellico or Nechayev) who used to be Captains but were promoted still walk in?

My understanding is that it actually has nothing to do with rank. You just have to be in charge of a ship (thereby getting the informal title of captain).

 

[Paris]

I think you just have to be a "leader of men (and/or women)". A ship is not neccesary. Just look at Mackenzie Calhoun. He was aloud in for the first time when he was still only the Warlord of Xenex, and that was years before he ever commanded a starship...

"Only a Warlord". I make it seem like commanding a starship is somehow a bigger deal than being your worlds' Alexander The Great .

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I guess the whole "You're captain now" thing in the new movie muddies that issue, though.

Yeah, but only during the movie. After the film, it's not really an issue, now is it?

This raises an interesting question. Is the Captain's Table attached to any particular timeline, or might the movie-Kirk be able to meet series-Picard within the Captain's Table?

No, I'm not advocating such a story. I'd be disappointed if Pocket even considered such a story. But as a thought experiment...

 

[Lindley]

^The great thing about the Captain's Table concept is that such an event wouldn't even be outlandish.

 

[Christopher]

I guess the whole "You're captain now" thing in the new movie muddies that issue, though.

Yeah, but only during the movie. After the film, it's not really an issue, now is it?

The point is that the same practice, giving the title "captain" to the first officer when the conn is turned over to him, is employed twice 25 years apart in the course of the film (or rather three times: Robau to George Kirk, Pike to Spock, Spock to James Kirk), implying that it's meant to be a general Starfleet policy. Thus it would have ramifications beyond the film.

This raises an interesting question. Is the Captain's Table attached to any particular timeline, or might the movie-Kirk be able to meet series-Picard within the Captain's Table?

Heck, in the original miniseries, the Captain's Table even included captains from fiction, like a Disneyesque version of Captain Nemo in Where Sea Meets Sky. So I'm sure people from parallel timelines would've been fair game as well.

 

[chelly]

The one with Calhoun (I think it was his) had Captain Smith (not fiction) from the Titanic.

 

[Dayton Ward]

So far as the new movie is concerned,

Spoiler: Is this really still a spoiler? Oh, well...just in case.

Robau and Pike telling their respective first officers "You're the captain now," was meant to convey that neither man believed they would be returning from their visit to the Narada. At that point, George Kirk and Spock became "acting captains" in job title only, until such time as an actual promotion and orders from higher authority to formally take command of the vessel on a permanent basis are given (which we see Kirk receive at the end of the film).

So far as the Captain's Table is concerned, I figure it works under more fluid "constraints," and George Kirk, who was in command of the Kelvin when Robau died, would've been granted "access" to the CT at that moment. I don't recall the details from Picard's book, but how long after he took command of the Stargazer did he find his way in?

(I know the CT is pretty fanciful so far as fitting within the Trek mythos, but I still think it's fun. )

 

[Christopher]

(I know the CT is pretty fanciful so far as fitting within the Trek mythos, but I still think it's fun. )

Personally, I feel the whole concept is a poor fit to a universe that's always at least nominally tried to be rationalistic. I mean, the idea of doing a series based on the "storytellers in a tavern" format is valid, since it's a literary trope with a lot of history to it, but not all tavern series have time-travel or interdimensional aspects like Callahan's Crosstime Saloon or the Old Phoenix (from Poul Anderson's fiction). I would've rather seen something more like Tales from the White Hart, where the tavern was just an ordinary place with no mystical properties, and it was just the stories that were extravagant.

Heck, even aside from the mysticism, even if one assumed there were some time-travelling being or a Q or something underlying the Captain's Table, I just can't believe that Starfleet officers would be so cavalier about the risk of timeline contamination. I can't see Jean-Luc Picard just hanging out there and going "Hey, don't worry about it." I think he'd be adamant about not revealing any information about his time to any captain from an earlier era.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ This is why you don't get invited to all the cool parties.

Another favorite "Tales of" setup I really enjoy is Ken Rand's stories set in the "Lucky Nickel Saloon." It's more White Hart than Crosstime Saloon, but odd things do tend to happen there, and usually in gut-busting fashion thanks to Ken's singular stylings.

As for the Captain's Table, maybe it can be rationalized that any sort of potentially damaging info that's conveyed within the tavern is suppressed or erased from the mind of anyone who might use that knowledge to damage the timeline, and done so by whoever or whatever has conjured the CT in the first place? (I mean, so long as we're gabbin' about it.... )

And since we're here, I keep thinking we're long overdue for a Tales from the Shore Leave Bar anthology.....

 

[Allyn Gibson]

And since we're here, I keep thinking we're long overdue for a Tales from the Shore Leave Bar anthology.....

To filkers: "You guys suck! You're ruining all my favorite songs!"

To Glenn Hauman: "Weird. I thought you'd be taller."

Other things that happened at the Shore Leave bar stay in the Shore Leave bar.

 

[Stevil2001]

I think you just have to be a "leader of men (and/or women)". A ship is not neccesary. Just look at Mackenzie Calhoun. He was aloud in for the first time when he was still only the Warlord of Xenex, and that was years before he ever commanded a starship...

Apologies because it's been ages since I read Once Burned (and so I might be off), but I think Calhoun was commanding an airship in the rebellion at the point he finds the bar, and he has a Xenexian title that translates as "captain". Cap mentions Alexander the Great having been in because he fancied himself a "captain of men", but they act like that was unusual-- and not be repeated. There seems to be something strongly naval about it.

 

[David cgc]

Cap mentions Alexander the Great having been in because he fancied himself a "captain of men", but they act like that was unusual-- and not be repeated. There seems to be something strongly naval about it.

IIRC, the fact that they were a little more strict after Alexander had less to do with him not being the captain of an actual vessel and more to do with him attempting to invade and annex the tavern.

 

[Paris]

I think you just have to be a "leader of men (and/or women)". A ship is not neccesary. Just look at Mackenzie Calhoun. He was aloud in for the first time when he was still only the Warlord of Xenex, and that was years before he ever commanded a starship...

Apologies because it's been ages since I read Once Burned (and so I might be off), but I think Calhoun was commanding an airship in the rebellion at the point he finds the bar, and he has a Xenexian title that translates as "captain". Cap mentions Alexander the Great having been in because he fancied himself a "captain of men", but they act like that was unusual-- and not be repeated. There seems to be something strongly naval about it.

This actually sounds familiar. I must have just forgotten about the airship. It's been some time since I re-read Once Burned myself..

Cap mentions Alexander the Great having been in because he fancied himself a "captain of men", but they act like that was unusual-- and not be repeated. There seems to be something strongly naval about it.

IIRC, the fact that they were a little more strict after Alexander had less to do with him not being the captain of an actual vessel and more to do with him attempting to invade and annex the tavern.

Oh, that wacky Alexander. Always getting into fights wherever he goes

 

[Therin of Andor]

Didn't someone say, in one of the CT stories, that if a captain did recognize a fellow captain, and had an intention of talking to him/her to warn of an impending disaster that he just wouldn't be able to make it across the room without being interrupted?

Like never reaching the far wall on a holodeck?

 

[Christopher]

^Yeah, but even the basic setup of one captain telling stories to other captains, including ones from the past, is bound to carry risks. Any information about the future, even seemingly insignificant details, could have an impact.

 

[captcalhoun]

that was what happened with Mac. he tried to get to his old CO and the bar seemed to conspire against him so he could never reach him.

 

[KRAD]

To Glenn Hauman: "Weird. I thought you'd be taller."

Something Glenn likely had never heard before or since........

 

[Technobuilder]

I always thought the idea of the Captain's Table was pretty neat.

It's kind of like the Guardian of Forever except with free booze and greater crossover potential.