The captain on the holodeck

[Nakita Akita]

I watched the episode last night where Oaris had set up an "Irish" village on the holodeck.
The captain goes there for some reason and the holodeck bartender gives her 'the look'.
And she's interested?
The whole thing is just weird.
Did Paris program the bartender to give 'the look' to all females in the program?
If not, then it's just creepy.
It's creepy to that the captain is interested.
Could see it if the captain was alone on the ship for years, but that's it.
I know with the Trek shows we just accept the holodecks, but who thinks society will really reach this point as a normal behavior?
I find it freaky and seeing them portraying a smart, well rounded, strong woman 'falling' for essentially a light fixture sort of sad.

Unfortunately, I fell asleep and missed the ending. As with the episodic television which we were blessed with in the past, I'm sure she dumped her light fixture romance, was the episode presented to show her being alone, supposedly she can't date or marry a subordinate...?
I wish I hadn't fallen asleep, but I don't thing the last ten minutes would have made me have less questions.
Or was it just a bad episode?

 

[Timo]

I think this would be a perfectly natural way to use holoentertainment in a future like Trek's. Nothing creepy about it, just a minor variant of the reader finding a character in a book interesting.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm pretty sure one of the first things they did when they invented the holodeck was have sex with a hologram.

In fact that's probably why it was invented

 

[Nakita Akita]

I'm pretty sure one of the first things they did when they invented the holodeck was have sex with a hologram.

In fact that's probably why it was invented

Totally.
But I really belive that men and women are different.
I think that in general women look for more than just sex for the sake of sex, or flavor of the week, etc. I think most women or most of the time are seeking something with meaning. (Okay not always or everyone, I'll agree)
And many men are like that too.
I just can't picture the captain of a ship in such a powerful position acting so silly.
Like could we see The Picard doing this?!!
I think not!
Just can't picture Janeway acting like this either.
Also, I don't know why she can't have a relationship with someone else on the ship

 

[Lynx]

Wasn't it "Fair Haven" or "Spirit Folks?

Both those were horrible, I haven't watched them for years.

As for "The captain on the holodeck", I could never understand Janeway's taste for holodeck adventures when she created that wicked holodeck thing in the first seasons.

To see Captain Janeway turn herself into some servile maid did seem very weird the first time I watched it. Not to mention that creepy Lord Burleigh, the even more creepy Mrs Davenport and the rather obnoxious kids and the orders to Janeway's character not to go up to the fourth floor and all that about the daughter claining that her mother wasn't dead. Did Lord Burleigh have his wife nailed to the floor in an empty room, chained or locked inside a room with ho doors and no window?

If it was a holodeck ghost story, then I can understand why Janeway did choose that scenario, otherwise not.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Wasn't it "Fair Haven" or "Spirit Folks?

Both those were horrible, I haven't watched them for years.

As for "The captain on the holodeck", I could never understand Janeway's taste for holodeck adventures when she created that wicked holodeck thing in the first seasons.

To see Captain Janeway turn herself into some servile maid did seem very weird the first time I watched it. Not to mention that creepy Lord Burleigh, the even more creepy Mrs Davenport and the rather obnoxious kids and the orders to Janeway's character not to go up to the fourth floor and all that about the daughter claining that her mother wasn't dead. Did Lord Burleigh have his wife nailed to the floor in an empty room, chained or locked inside a room with ho doors and no window?

If it was a holodeck ghost story, then I can understand why Janeway did choose that scenario, otherwise not.

Mmmm,
Maybe I missed more of the episode than I thought I did. Feeding the dogs, letting them outside, then missing the ending by falling asleep, but still, I guess I missed a lot.
I thought the episode was about Janeway falling in love/lust with a light fixture in the guise of a bartender, who in turn was terribly upset that she seemed to have dumped him. ( know years back I threw away my old broken vacuum cleaner and it was so sad sitting by the curb awaiting the trash pickup.)
An episode with someone nailed to the floor and sprites or ghosts sounds better. I can't wait to see THAT episode.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Also, I don't know why she can't have a relationship with someone else on the ship

Because she is the Captain. Janeway literally says this in multiple episodes. It's a professional boundary that she won't cross. The TNG episode 'Lessons' is a perfect exploration of why Captains casually dating their crew is a bad idea.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Because she is the Captain. Janeway literally says this in multiple episodes. It's a professional boundary that she won't cross. The TNG episode 'Lessons' is a perfect exploration of why Captains casually dating their crew is a bad idea.

Casually dating for sure. But a committed relationship would be different, I think.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Casually dating for sure. But a committed relationship would be different, I think.

Well considering you can't get to committed relationship without dating it really isn't different, in fact it would probably be worse. The real issue for Janeway is that everyone on the ship is her subordinate and potentially someone that she may have to give an order to that results in their death. It's already hard enough for a Captain to do that even with professional distance maintained but to give that order to someone you love? You might be able to do it, but you probably couldn't live with the guilt afterwards.

 

[at Quark's]

I'm pretty sure one of the first things they did when they invented the holodeck was have sex with a hologram.

In fact that's probably why it was invented

You mean, like internet was developed to make cybersex possible? Or video cards?

So, no, I don't buy that. I'd certainly believe it would be one of the first derived applications the masses would take to as soon as it became available to them, but I think the technology itself would rather start as a very useful simulation tool for (military and other technical) training.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Well considering you can't get to committed relationship without dating it really isn't different, in fact it would probably be worse. The real issue for Janeway is that everyone on the ship is her subordinate and potentially someone that she may have to give an order to that results in their death. It's already hard enough for a Captain to do that even with professional distance maintained but to give that order to someone you love? You might be able to do it, but you probably couldn't live with the guilt afterwards.

I said not casual dating.
As in a date with this person for two times, one date with this person, one date with someone else, one week with this other person, casual dating.

After being on the ship for a year or more it would be pretty silly to casual date anyway.
An adult would probably figure out who they like or don't like. As for dating, after sitting next to a personals interacting at work for an eight or twelve hour shift, you'd get to know one another. You'd both probably know if you could conceivably be a couple or not.
Choosing to bump uglies, whatever.
Adults in a situation such as having to order the other person to do their job. As an adult it would be a difficult situation. As you'd spent hours and days and months working together the subject would have probably come up. An adult signs up to do the dangerous work with the knowledge that they may lose their life.
The commanding officer signs up knowing that they may have to give the order that kills someone.
Adults make all sorts of difficult decisions on a daily basis. That's what bring an adult entails.
I would imagine Janeway being with someone that would have the level of maturity to deal with all that bring an adult entails. Both parties being fully aware of the potentialities.
I'm sure Janeway wouldn't arbitrarily order someone to jump out an air lock to kill themselves. A person dying in the line of duty is something that can happen to anyone at anytime.
I think a strong leader and someone she'd be involved with would both have the mental faculties to deal with the possibility.

 

[Lynx]

Mmmm,
Maybe I missed more of the episode than I thought I did. Feeding the dogs, letting them outside, then missing the ending by falling asleep, but still, I guess I missed a lot.
I thought the episode was about Janeway falling in love/lust with a light fixture in the guise of a bartender, who in turn was terribly upset that she seemed to have dumped him. ( know years back I threw away my old broken vacuum cleaner and it was so sad sitting by the curb awaiting the trash pickup.)
An episode with someone nailed to the floor and sprites or ghosts sounds better. I can't wait to see THAT episode.

Unfortunately, you won't see it in any Voyager episode.
My comment was just about the weird holodeck program Janeway had in seasons 1 and 2 and the scenario with janeway's character not allowed to go to the fourth flooor of the house and everyone talking av´bout Lord Burleigh's wife as dead but the daughter claimed that she was alive. All that was very weird and I sometimes suspected something sinister in that Holonovel. Unfortunately we never found out what it was.

 

[fireproof78]

I think a strong leader and someone she'd be involved with would both have the mental faculties to deal with the possibility.

Even Picard couldn't handle that possibility.

For Janeway, her position makes sense. She is the leader, and is set apart from the crew in order to make the best possible decisions to get them home. A relationship would make her job harder because she might hesitate to make a decision, like Picard did.

Sorry, there is a reason why in many organizations run by adults relationships between leadership and subordinates is discouraged or forbidden as a matter of policy. There is a reason why codes of ethics forbid relationships between helping professionals and their clients. On a starship stranded far away from home the reasons are even more apparent.

At least to me.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I said not casual dating.
As in a date with this person for two times, one date with this person, one date with someone else, one week with this other person, casual dating.

After being on the ship for a year or more it would be pretty silly to casual date anyway.
An adult would probably figure out who they like or don't like. As for dating, after sitting next to a personals interacting at work for an eight or twelve hour shift, you'd get to know one another. You'd both probably know if you could conceivably be a couple or not.
Choosing to bump uglies, whatever.
Adults in a situation such as having to order the other person to do their job. As an adult it would be a difficult situation. As you'd spent hours and days and months working together the subject would have probably come up. An adult signs up to do the dangerous work with the knowledge that they may lose their life.
The commanding officer signs up knowing that they may have to give the order that kills someone.
Adults make all sorts of difficult decisions on a daily basis. That's what bring an adult entails.
I would imagine Janeway being with someone that would have the level of maturity to deal with all that bring an adult entails. Both parties being fully aware of the potentialities.
I'm sure Janeway wouldn't arbitrarily order someone to jump out an air lock to kill themselves. A person dying in the line of duty is something that can happen to anyone at anytime.
I think a strong leader and someone she'd be involved with would both have the mental faculties to deal with the possibility.

Janeway made an adult decision that it was a line that she personally wouldn't cross. As a manager myself in real life i feel the same. I've been attracted to subordinates before but for me that is where it ends and I shut down those feelings pretty quickly. I will never date someone that I manage, it's a rule i've never broken and never will break. Professional distance and not letting your personal feelings for someone whether they be positive or negative, influence your decision-making are key to strong leadership. There is a whole myriad of issues with superiors entering into relationships with subordinates regardless of each persons maturity

 

[fireproof78]

Janeway made an adult decision that it was a line that she personally wouldn't cross. As a manager myself in real life i feel the same. I've been attracted to subordinates before but for me that is where it ends and I shut down those feelings pretty quickly. I will never date someone that I manage, it's a rule i've never broken and never will break. Professional distance and not letting your personal feelings for someone whether they be positive or negative, influence your decision-making are key to strong leadership. There is a whole myriad of issues with superiors entering into relationships with subordinates regardless of each persons maturity

Exactly.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Janeway made an adult decision that it was a line that she personally wouldn't cross. As a manager myself in real life i feel the same. I've been attracted to subordinates before but for me that is where it ends and I shut down those feelings pretty quickly. I will never date someone that I manage, it's a rule i've never broken and never will break. Professional distance and not letting your personal feelings for someone whether they be positive or negative, influence your decision-making are key to strong leadership. There is a whole myriad of issues with superiors entering into relationships with subordinates regardless of each persons maturity

Wernt they going to be stuck on that ship for like 20 years or something?
That's a long time to put your life on hold.
I think with the right people it could have been handled just fine.
And even if two people are together, what happens if one of them gets promoted?
They have to get divorced?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Wernt they going to be stuck on that ship for like 20 years or something?
That's a long time to put your life on hold.
I think with the right people it could have been handled just fine.
And even if two people are together, what happens if one of them gets promoted?
They have to get divorced?

If two people are together and one of them is promoted, then the person getting promoted would probably be reassigned to a position where they aren't the direct supervisor of their partner. That is what generally happens in real life.

 

[fireproof78]

Wernt they going to be stuck on that ship for like 20 years or something?
That's a long time to put your life on hold.
I think with the right people it could have been handled just fine.
And even if two people are together, what happens if one of them gets promoted?
They have to get divorced?

On Voyager Janeway is above all. How is she equal to the rest of the crew?

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

I think with the right people it could have been handled just fine.

Sure. In the same way it should be ok for an accused to give money to their judge; if they are the right people, they will not let it influence their decision.

Plus, in the Delta Quadrant, Janeway is not only the captain, but also the highest and only (Starfleet) authority.

If a relationship on another ship does't work out, you can just ask for reassignment or leave Starfleet. Here, if you want to ever see the alpha quadrant again, you are stuck with your ex.

I still found the whole Janeway 'in love' with a holo character a bit icky, particularly as it was a semi-public thing. Not as icky as the Paris/ salamander thing, but still...

Probably the healthiest solution for Janeway would have been to have affairs with nice alien now and then...

 

[Kor]

One of the ways 24th-century Trek falls short is that we are supposed to believe that humans of that era are so much more highly evolved than us, but they still behave exactly the same as we do and still have 20th century ethics and morals.

In a far future era of advanced "new humans" with radically different dynamics in human relationships such as temporary marriage contracts and love instructors (as in the famed and vaunted TMP novelization), humans undoubtedly will have evolved beyond our primitive notions of forced professional distance and have no problem whatsoever ordering a romantic partner to their doom if the situation calls for it, without pesky sentiment getting in the way.

Alas, for explorations of truly different concepts of humanity, one must turn to literary science fiction instead of the watered-down stuff that makes it to the popular media.

Kor