The box office dominance of Avatar

[theenglish]

All of the reasons above are fine, but you can't look at Avatar's success without looking at James Cameron. Time and time again, Cameron defies critics and creates record breaking blockbusters. I don't know why or what his secret is because I have always thought that his movies were cliche, "b-movie" at best material, with awesome effects. But he does go all in when it comes to effects and detail. Terminator, Rambo, Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2, True Lies, Titanic, Avatar.

His success defies any logical expectations of standard blockbusters. The question for this thread should be why does Cameron keep making successful movies that would be mediocre in the hands of practically anybody else? I don't have an answer to that.

 

[Infern0]

All of the reasons above are fine, but you can't look at Avatar's success without looking at James Cameron. Time and time again, Cameron defies critics and creates record breaking blockbusters. I don't know why or what his secret is because I have always thought that his movies were cliche, "b-movie" at best material, with awesome effects. But he does go all in when it comes to effects and detail. Terminator, Rambo, Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2, True Lies, Titanic, Avatar.

His success defies any logical expectations of standard blockbusters. The question for this thread should be why does Cameron keep making successful movies that would be mediocre in the hands of practically anybody else? I don't have an answer to that.

Redlettermedia gave their opinion and it was that basically his movies have "something for everyone" I definitely think that's part of it

 

[Tosk]

I have always thought that his movies were cliche, "b-movie" at best material, with awesome effects. [...] His success defies any logical expectations of standard blockbusters.

Does it? We're living in a world where the Fast + Furious, Jurassic World, and Transformers movies were mega-hits. If they're not "cliche, b-movies with awesome effects" I don't know what is.

 

[theenglish]

Does it? We're living in a world where the Fast + Furious, Jurassic World, and Transformers movies were mega-hits. If they're not "cliche, b-movies with awesome effects" I don't know what is.

But Cameron was doing it long before those movies. And he is basically an auteur not ruled by the demands of cinema. Cameron seems to always be at the front of the next big thing, and everyone else just seems to follow in his success.

 

[Tosk]

And Star Wars did it long before him. The quintessential cliche b-movie with awesome effects.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

All of the reasons above are fine, but you can't look at Avatar's success without looking at James Cameron. Time and time again, Cameron defies critics and creates record breaking blockbusters. I don't know why or what his secret is because I have always thought that his movies were cliche, "b-movie" at best material, with awesome effects. But he does go all in when it comes to effects and detail. Terminator, Rambo, Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2, True Lies, Titanic, Avatar.

Rambo?!

 

[Tosk]

Rambo?!

He wrote a draft of Rambo, then Stallone did a rewrite before filming. They're both credited.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Huh. Hadn't noticed that. But, as the writer of a draft of the screenplay that was rewritten, he probably didn't have much influence on the effects in that movie, so I still don't see how it fits into this context.

 

[Ethros]

People will always find reasons to cry "not fair!" on this subject, because the Superhero Orgy just...fell...short.

I love Avatar. I was just offering one explanation among many as to why it made more money than Endgame. Keep your hair on.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Avatar was Dances with Wolves meets The Last Samurai in Space, but it was a cinematic experience. The worldbuilding was so rich it swept you away. People wanted to GO to Pandora. That's why I saw it twice at the time, at any rate. And love him or hate him, but James Cameron knows how to make movies. The dude knows what he's doing, period.

Endgame is more of the same MCU warmed-over crap in my opinion, but it's a movie "everyone" wanted to see, and since a ton of people are so stupidly afraid of spoilers, people NEEDED to see it so you weren't "spoiled." That's why it's so front-loaded and is running on fumes now, when it should've obliterated Avatar's record by all accounts. People saw it, and since it's such a mediocre movie -- with a dragging middle portion so pedestrian that an editor could go to town on it and the film wouldn't be poorer -- people didn't need to KEEP seeing it. It wasn't a bona-fide cinematic experience.

Avatar isn't a 4-star movie in my opinion. Neither is Titanic. You don't need to be a perfect movie to be a cinematic experience. You just need to capture people's hearts.

I think about an Indian film whenever this stuff comes up. There's a reason people KEEP seeing a movie like Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge after 25 years, for example. You know every beat, every line, every song, everything in the film. You might've seen the film 25 or 30 times. But you still enjoy the hell out of it every time you watch it. That's why that film (and a few others like it) still run in small theaters and people STILL adore it It's the same reason people KEPT seeing Doctor Zhivago back in the day, again and again. The same with the original Star Wars.

Marvel doesn't have that X-factor.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

^Says you.
My office manager watches Ragnarok every weekend and she's always quoting it.
Guardians and Winter Soldier are on heavy rotation in my house. And Endgame was an experience that many have seen more than once, is different enough from previous Marvel outings, and there's no need for condescension regarding people wanting to be surprised by what a movie has to offer in the way the film makers intended. You only hear about it so often now because the internet, for better and worse, has taken a lot of these experiences away that we took for granted before it.

Marvel can entertain just as well as any other movie, for many people, even more. Your jaded views can't take that away from them.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

and there's no need for condescension regarding people wanting to be surprised by what a movie has to offer in the way the film makers intended. You only hear about it so often now because the internet, for better and worse, has taken a lot of these experiences away that we took for granted before it.

That logic has always been flawed. Because that means that any movie based on any historical event, and any movie based on a popular book, is therefore "ruined" or a lesser experience for audiences who are familiar with how things unfold.

Bullcrap.

Apollo 13? They survive...we know the ending, so why watch? The ending is SPOILED!!!! Harry Potter. Hundreds of millions of people read the books. Why even bother with the movies? You know everything going in...why bother? Yet people did. Game of Thrones - the first 5 seasons were known to millions of people who'd read the books beforehand. Every surprise, every twist, every big event. They were SPOILED (!!!!) yet they watched anyway. And were just as entertained, and the show's ratings GREW over time. Because knowing something happens doesn't ruin the experience of SEEING it happen.

"Spoiler avoidance culture" reached a ridiculous peak with Endgame. To such an insane degree, people were assaulted and threatened. So yeah, I will always view it as absolutely idiotic. Not sorry.

But to the point of this thread, THAT is why Endgame is so front-loaded. And it's running on fumes now because it has so little to offer as a movie aside from initial hype. Hell, I thought after that initial weekend that it would vaporize Avatar from orbit. It should have. It may still pass the record, but its lack of legs is rather astonishing. Only hardcores are seeing it again and again.

It lacks that X-factor that other movies have.It will never be a Doctor Zhivago, a Star Wars, a Jaws, or a DDLJ.

 

[Takeru]

I like about a third of the movies I've seen, many of them on TV. I liked the first Iron Man, the third Thor movie (the first two blew chunks), GoTG sorta. I really like a couple.* For the most part, they're overblown, stupidly written and formulaic.

You're not wrong but the MCU films are still massively entertaining. But stupidly written and formulaic also fits Avatar, it was visually great but that's it.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

This 'marvel has no x-factor' bs is easily the dumbest thing I've read all day.

Endgame is already the second highest grossing movie in existence and the only movie so far to ever get anywhere near Avatar's record. Whether it passes the record or not, you simply do not get that far if no one liked the movie enough to see it a second time. Tons of people, not just diehards, have clearly gone back enough times to get it to where it is now.

And if marvel has no x-factor, then why do they have five of the top 10 highest grossing movies? If you have to beat Avatar to qualify as having the 'x-factor' then literally no other movie in history has had it.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Marvel movies are the culmination of the blockbuster era....but they will not be remembered for decades to come. Except for a few of them that have extra layers to their storytelling, most are like eating fast food. Lots of people like McDonalds. Lots of people like Marvel movies.

I could be wrong, sure. But the majority of them will never be classics decades from now that people adore.

 

[JD]

Avatar was Dances with Wolves meets The Last Samurai in Space, but it was a cinematic experience. The worldbuilding was so rich it swept you away. People wanted to GO to Pandora. That's why I saw it twice at the time, at any rate. And love him or hate him, but James Cameron knows how to make movies. The dude knows what he's doing, period.

Endgame is more of the same MCU warmed-over crap in my opinion, but it's a movie "everyone" wanted to see, and since a ton of people are so stupidly afraid of spoilers, people NEEDED to see it so you weren't "spoiled." That's why it's so front-loaded and is running on fumes now, when it should've obliterated Avatar's record by all accounts. People saw it, and since it's such a mediocre movie -- with a dragging middle portion so pedestrian that an editor could go to town on it and the film wouldn't be poorer -- people didn't need to KEEP seeing it. It wasn't a bona-fide cinematic experience.

Avatar isn't a 4-star movie in my opinion. Neither is Titanic. You don't need to be a perfect movie to be a cinematic experience. You just need to capture people's hearts.

I think about an Indian film whenever this stuff comes up. There's a reason people KEEP seeing a movie like Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge after 25 years, for example. You know every beat, every line, every song, everything in the film. You might've seen the film 25 or 30 times. But you still enjoy the hell out of it every time you watch it. That's why that film (and a few others like it) still run in small theaters and people STILL adore it It's the same reason people KEPT seeing Doctor Zhivago back in the day, again and again. The same with the original Star Wars.

Marvel doesn't have that X-factor.

That logic has always been flawed. Because that means that any movie based on any historical event, and any movie based on a popular book, is therefore "ruined" or a lesser experience for audiences who are familiar with how things unfold.

Bullcrap.

Apollo 13? They survive...we know the ending, so why watch? The ending is SPOILED!!!! Harry Potter. Hundreds of millions of people read the books. Why even bother with the movies? You know everything going in...why bother? Yet people did. Game of Thrones - the first 5 seasons were known to millions of people who'd read the books beforehand. Every surprise, every twist, every big event. They were SPOILED (!!!!) yet they watched anyway. And were just as entertained, and the show's ratings GREW over time. Because knowing something happens doesn't ruin the experience of SEEING it happen.

"Spoiler avoidance culture" reached a ridiculous peak with Endgame. To such an insane degree, people were assaulted and threatened. So yeah, I will always view it as absolutely idiotic. Not sorry.

But to the point of this thread, THAT is why Endgame is so front-loaded. And it's running on fumes now because it has so little to offer as a movie aside from initial hype. Hell, I thought after that initial weekend that it would vaporize Avatar from orbit. It should have. It may still pass the record, but its lack of legs is rather astonishing. Only hardcores are seeing it again and again.

It lacks that X-factor that other movies have.It will never be a Doctor Zhivago, a Star Wars, a Jaws, or a DDLJ.

Wow, I could not possibly disagree with you more. I love the MCU movies, and I have seen all of them except Homecoming, Capt. Marvel, and Endgame at least two or three times. The only reason I haven't seen those three more is because they aren't on Netflix. I'll definitely watch those three at least once more, and will probably watch most of the others at least once more once they are up on Disney+. It's one of my all of favorite movies series.
Endgame was amazing, and the reason I saw it once in theaters, is because I never seen a movie more than once in theaters. There's just way to much stuff coming out that I want to see for me to spend theater money to see something more once.
The only reason I don't watch them more is because I have a lot of other movies I haven't seen or have only seen once and want to see again.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Cameron’s stories are simplistic, but the way he creates memorable visual narratives is far from B movie material.

Speaking from the perspective of someone whose “Best movie” list involves a lot of slow artsy foreign films.

Endgame is a god damn entertaining movie. It’s not original or surprising. They took stories that are silly and fluffy on the surface and converted it to one of the funnest spectacles ever. I would watch it again long before Avatar, which felt for me almost like obligation viewing.

They took a couple dozen narrative strings and wove them together in a way that somehow honored all of them and came to a satisfying conclusion. Avatar is the bigger technical achievement but Endgame is a major narrative achievement that also happens to look really pretty.

With the brain in the off position, it is one of my favorite movies ever.

Avatar, it really wants your brain to get to the on position, but it doesn’t work that way.

 

[Mudd]

Avatar was a movie that just about every movie goer wanted to see. Titanic was kind of like that too. The Marvel movies are not at that level.

Exactly so.

I knew a few people who went to see Avatar and loathed it - but they went to see it, and not because they didn't know anything about it. The movie, and the excitement it generated, intrigued people. This isn't really true with the Marvel franchise. I think Black Panther* brought some new viewers in, at least for one film.

Wonder Woman is kind of like that, too. People who don't see superhero movies were interested in that one.

*In America, it's the second highest-grossing Marvel movie, behind Endgame.

 

[Mudd]

An interesting and unanswerable question at the moment is, what movie will pass Avatar? It won't necessarily be a Marvel franchise film - they're unlikely to generate another Endgame-sized event for a while, and given the ever-growing scale of blockbuster box offices it's reasonable to think that something will knock Avatar off in the next few years.

Maybe it will be another Avatar movie - worth suggesting only because it was Avatar that unexpectedly dethroned Titanic.

 

[JD]

If you had asked me a few months ago, I would have said Endgame, but it that ship has probably already sailed.