the borg killed..millions
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
You know, everyone's operating on the presumption that the virus that Picard refused to introduce in "I, Borg" would have killed a significant percentage of the Collective, but isn't it more likely that it would have just disabled the Collective consciousness itself, thus leaving the drones free to make their own choices again?
Good question. Based on what we actually later saw happening to Drones out of contact with the/a Collective, it would seem that coping would be difficult and often impossible, but Picard couldn't have known that. What he did know, or thought he know, was the fatal nature of the weapon.
The way the invasive program was described to him, it appeared that the Collective would become so engrossed by its built-in mysteries that every Borg would become permanently inactive, and thus apparently eventually starve like Narcissos.
Timo Saloniemi
The way the invasive program was described to him, it appeared that the Collective would become so engrossed by its built-in mysteries that every Borg would become permanently inactive, and thus apparently eventually starve like Narcissos.
Timo Saloniemi
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I am just going by what was presented in the script. And just as you said Picard didn't really know what would have happened. We all saw what one Borg ship could do, twice. If they ever sent fleet? Game over. So, knowing the overwhelming power the Borg had, and since were still in an open state of war (FC was only a few years away) he should have implemented the Virus.
IMO..
Rob
But he had already condemned that sort of action in the second season episode "Survivors". Executing an entire species, even if in punishment of a most grievous offense, was something Picard obviously couldn't accept. Now granted that Picard didn't have such powers back then - only the alien of the week did. But the original crime had been committed against Picard's kin, a human colony, and still Picard couldn't sympathize.
One wonders if Picard in "I, Borg" had a realistic idea of the scope of the Borg civilization. If he remembered enough of his Locutus days, he would realize he was about to execute more of the enemy than there were Federation citizens. By what right? If absolute victory and absolute defeat were his only choices, shouldn't he rather have chosen voluntary defeat, assimilation, death? His selfish desire to survive would have been the act of a savage, thereby really making him unworthy of survival.
Timo Saloniemi
One wonders if Picard in "I, Borg" had a realistic idea of the scope of the Borg civilization. If he remembered enough of his Locutus days, he would realize he was about to execute more of the enemy than there were Federation citizens. By what right? If absolute victory and absolute defeat were his only choices, shouldn't he rather have chosen voluntary defeat, assimilation, death? His selfish desire to survive would have been the act of a savage, thereby really making him unworthy of survival.
Timo Saloniemi
Except that the Borg aren't a species -- they're a collection of species enslaved by an artificial intelligence.
Also, we've seen drones separated from the Collective who ended up just fine on numerous occasions.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Shouldn't he had chosen voluntary defeat? Huh??? Are you serious?? I think you're right, I actually do think he chose that fate for the UFP rather than destroy the enemy, entirely. This makes him the traitor he was on trial for, and certainly unfit of command. Sisko faced that same choice, and decided in the favor of the UFPs survival, which is what he, and Picard, both swore to defend. If Picard didn't want to protect the Federation then he should have remained a farmer, and let other more brave men take his place.
Voluntary deteat? Geeeshh!
Rob
Of course the Borg kill, you can't get to the juicy assimilated bits without chewing through a hell of a lot of cannon fodder. It would be impossible to assimilate 100% of the beings you encounter, just as it would be impossible to capture 100% of the soldiers you're fighting in any war. I'd wager that they probably kill more than they assimilate in most circumstances.
Boy did you miss the point of that episode
The argument was that (as has been used several times on Trek, including on DS9 with Section 31) to 'win' in this manner is a loss as bad as losing the Federation physically - because Picard would have betrayed what it stood for to 'save' it. He doesn't think they can stoop to that level and claim victory. I happen to feel the same about the "well they don't follow the rules! Why should we?" argument in current foreign policy.
People,
I agree more with Cultcross than with Robert Scorpio on this issue. But then again, our dear friend Scorpio is a well-known Picard hater, so his posts are undermined by that single-minded bias.
Frankly, we don't know what would've happened if Picard did introduce the program into the Borg. Geordi and Data might've been wrong about its impact.
I'd like to postulate a different outcome. What if this program succeeded in making the Borg individuals, like allowing Hugh to be reassimilated liberated the drones on his cube? Suppose they still had the same goal: assimilation? And by making them individuals, who might move faster than they did in their collective state -- again, as we saw them move ferociously in Descent, Pt. I -- they might become more dangerous and more of a threat to the Federation. Hell, they might be bent on avenging such an attack!
Picard is a moral man, and victory at such a price was too high for him. Even Sisko didn't condone what Section 31 did when they infected the Founders, despite his own underhanded tactic in By the Pale Moonlight.
I will also say that assimilation itself is a form of death, so by just that measure, the Borg have indeed killed millions. But I fundamentally disagree with the jingoistic, short-sighted opinion of the OP.
Red Ranger
I agree more with Cultcross than with Robert Scorpio on this issue. But then again, our dear friend Scorpio is a well-known Picard hater, so his posts are undermined by that single-minded bias.
Frankly, we don't know what would've happened if Picard did introduce the program into the Borg. Geordi and Data might've been wrong about its impact.
I'd like to postulate a different outcome. What if this program succeeded in making the Borg individuals, like allowing Hugh to be reassimilated liberated the drones on his cube? Suppose they still had the same goal: assimilation? And by making them individuals, who might move faster than they did in their collective state -- again, as we saw them move ferociously in Descent, Pt. I -- they might become more dangerous and more of a threat to the Federation. Hell, they might be bent on avenging such an attack!
Picard is a moral man, and victory at such a price was too high for him. Even Sisko didn't condone what Section 31 did when they infected the Founders, despite his own underhanded tactic in By the Pale Moonlight.
I will also say that assimilation itself is a form of death, so by just that measure, the Borg have indeed killed millions. But I fundamentally disagree with the jingoistic, short-sighted opinion of the OP.
Red Ranger
But surely, despite all the other species assimilated by the Borg, there must've been an original race of biological beings, perhaps the ones who purposefully joined the machine mind and became the founding members of the Borg? We just don't know.
I myself have always seen the Borg as an allegory on how we have become so enmeshed and dependent on technology -- people unable to put away their cell phones or Blackberrys, for example? -- that the Borg are a cautionary tale.
Red Ranger
