The Borg, explain to me
- Thread starter Delta Vega
- Start date
I think that its perfectly acceptable to believe that the Borg evolved as a natural progression of a single species technology, perhaps even willingly. As we saw in "Unity", there is inherent benefit to being linked in a hive mind. Perhaps a culture developed the technology, and the people willingly implanted transceivers to link their minds. Eventually, the entire population was implanted with these devices at birth (there is precedent, Bynars twins are linked to each other at birth). Eventually, the entire planet used their combined abilities to become space-faring, and eventually the collective became corrupt with the idea that their way of life was better and the only way to improve is to add further races to their mold, even if its against their will. Remember: the Borg think they're doing everyone else a favor. In their mind/minds, they're the GOOD guys.
The whole cyborg body parts thing could have even evolved separately from the transceiver. No problem with a collective race NOT having cyborg body parts. No problem with a regular species having cyborg body parts and not being linked. Either could have happened before the other.
This allows things like the Vaadwaur reference to make sense: 1000 years ago, the Borg weren't very advanced, only controlled a few systems, easily defeatable in battle. They hadn't yet built the technological capabilities required to completely overwhelm their opponents.
Species 1 (or Species 0, if they index their arrays) would be the original collective race.
The whole cyborg body parts thing could have even evolved separately from the transceiver. No problem with a collective race NOT having cyborg body parts. No problem with a regular species having cyborg body parts and not being linked. Either could have happened before the other.
This allows things like the Vaadwaur reference to make sense: 1000 years ago, the Borg weren't very advanced, only controlled a few systems, easily defeatable in battle. They hadn't yet built the technological capabilities required to completely overwhelm their opponents.
Species 1 (or Species 0, if they index their arrays) would be the original collective race.
Seconded, We get enough of that in the Star Wars Universe(s).
Next thing you know, Trelane and the Caretaker will have been roommates in college.
^Should I have a touch more outlandish with my derisive comment?
Oddly, what you said about Trelane and Lady Q wouldn't shock me given some of the TrekLit I've heard about.
antiquityscion
Commander
Personally, I think it is best to keep the Borg's origins vague, and perhaps even unknown. In the end, it isn't really important. What is important is what they are now: essentially techno-zombies and a commentary on technology run amok.
Well, to be fair that's nothing new for Trek. TOS did that same story a few times, except those guys were one-shots that weren't big threats. The Borg are just big-picture villain versions of the guys from "Return of the Archons".
I can understand wanting the Borg not to be related to Humanity, but I think that if you read the books, it thematically works much better
[spoiler="Destiny" trilogy]to have Humans and Borg be intertwined both at the Collective's beginning and its end.
Besides, Humans didn't start the Collective. They were just its first few victims -- and were quickly outnumbered by the natives of the world the Collective began on.[/spoiler]
The Destiny explanation makes Midi-chlorians look genius. Some random Delta Quadrant race/mad scientist created the Borg out of some experiment to improve quality of life/create awesome soldiers (insert mandatory lesson for humanity here) and we're done. Simple, relatable to the audience, and believable. What more would you want?
Thematically boring and uncreative. We've all heard a million different versions of "mad scientist creates technology that gets out of hand; we the audience learn important lesson from this Aesop."
"Destiny," on the other hand, presents us with the Borg as originating from the terrible loneliness and existential terror of someone who has refused to accept the inevitability of her own death and has chosen to violate everything she stands for in the name of survival. Instead of yet another "individualism is important!" allegory, "Destiny" posits the Collective as being the living embodiment of that terrible hunger we all have, that part of us that lives in pure selfishness which would rather destroy the world than accept our own mortality. Someone facing their own death who cannot accept their mortality, and would rather sell out everything she once stood for than die. And the terrible, terrible loneliness that comes with it.
Besides, much as we might criticize the idea of Humans being present at the Borg's creation -- I haven't yet heard a good explanation for why they'd call themselves after the English name for a cybernetic organism otherwise.
Besides, much as we might criticize the idea of Humans being present at the Borg's creation -- I haven't yet heard a good explanation for why they'd call themselves after the English name for a cybernetic organism otherwise.
Why do Vulcans call themselves after something from Earth mythology?
And there's Romulus and Remus?
And Ferengi (foreigner in...some language I'm too lazy to look up).
(Yes, I know you weren't being serious.)
And the very first time we heard the name "Borg" it came from Guinan and Q. It may just be their actual name when translated to English, and the Borg just went "Meh, if we're talking to them in their language we'll just use their name for us instead of wasting our time explaining our real name."
Then when VOY is in the DQ we're hearing all the aliens through the Translator, and it always comes out as "Borg" there too.
It's just a sci-fi staple.
And heck, no one ever wonders why the Borg all look human. Even the non-assimilated ones!
Then when VOY is in the DQ we're hearing all the aliens through the Translator, and it always comes out as "Borg" there too.
It's just a sci-fi staple.
And heck, no one ever wonders why the Borg all look human. Even the non-assimilated ones!
i remember reading a pretty cool fic a while back that linked The Borg to V'ger from the original movie...
have to hunt it down again as it was pretty interesting from what i remember of it...
I think it was linked as V'ger started to try and bring biological entities into its own design, to try and understand the universe more... this was all prior to the events of the motion picture... and the Borg evolved from there over time...
Just one fans origin story for them, but it's one that stuck in my mind for some reason...
M
have to hunt it down again as it was pretty interesting from what i remember of it...
I think it was linked as V'ger started to try and bring biological entities into its own design, to try and understand the universe more... this was all prior to the events of the motion picture... and the Borg evolved from there over time...
Just one fans origin story for them, but it's one that stuck in my mind for some reason...
M
Thematically boring and uncreative. We've all heard a million different versions of "mad scientist creates technology that gets out of hand; we the audience learn important lesson from this Aesop."
So coming up with something crazy and convoluted just to be original is a better idea? I like it when Star Trek tries to be believable and, well, Destiny isn't believable. Cybernetic implants going a little too far? Believable.
And why does the origin of a race have to be creative? The Klingons probably evolved exactly like us from single-celled organisms and their planet formed from a lot of dust. Is that too boring? Should their origins be explained as fishpeople from Atlantis who traveled the stars and impregnated Kahless' mother with the sperm of George Washington?
Besides, much as we might criticize the idea of Humans being present at the Borg's creation -- I haven't yet heard a good explanation for why they'd call themselves after the English name for a cybernetic organism otherwise.
Why do Vulcans call themselves after something from Earth mythology?
And there's Romulus and Remus?
Bloody stupid, too, but not much to be done about that one. But with "cyborg" -- that's not even an old word! It's one that's existed for just a few decades, making it even more unbelievable that the Borg would happen to name themselves after that.
Thematically boring and uncreative. We've all heard a million different versions of "mad scientist creates technology that gets out of hand; we the audience learn important lesson from this Aesop."
So coming up with something crazy and convoluted just to be original is a better idea?
1. You misquoted me. The smilie didn't come until after my talk of the name "Borg;" it did not occur after the "this has been done before" part.
2. "Just to be original?" Dude, the entire point is to tell a story. Of course you want to do something that's more interesting than a plot that's old and predictable. And being "crazy and convoluted" is completely subjective -- plenty of complex stories, or even somewhat implausible stories, can be told that are still good and well-written and meaningful.
Really, which is more unbelievable -- that the Borg would just happen to call themselves after the English term for cybernetic organisms yet not have a connection to Humans, or that there would be yet another Huge Coincidence in species names?
But the Borg aren't a race. Really, we shouldn't even use the plural form in referring to the Borg -- the Collective is an artificial intelligence out of control. It is, in essence, an individual entity. And, yes, when you're doing a story about the history and ultimate fate of that entity, you ought to tell an interesting story.
Which is what Destiny is -- the origin and fate of the Borg Collective. And it's an incredibly deep, moving, thematically relevant tale, well worth telling.
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