The Book of Eli and the Black Male Hero

[captcalhoun]

less intelligent (Ripcord; in the movie they specifically pointed out that Duke's test scores were higher, why I don't know),

that wasn't Rip's intelligence. that was his scores in combat tests. like the holographic targt range thingy. and i think the point they were making was Duke was f'ing badass and Ripcord was good, but not good enough to be Joe material. the Joes, it was emphasised were/are the best of the best. the alpha dogs. and clearly the Joes are not racist - note Heavy Duty, Breaker and the Asian chick in the invisibility suit - it's just that Rip, whilst good enough for the US Special Forces was not good enough for the Joes. they take the top 1% of candidates, he fell into the 2nd % of scores. Hawk basically let him in because he needed Duke's co-operation on finding the Baroness and the warheads and probably figured if he kicked Rip out, Duke would follow out of loyalty to his friend. possibly, there was also some sympathy to Rip and Duke's desire to get even for the attack on the convoy.

Rip, however, did prove his worth by helping to save the day. let's not forget he saved Moscow and Washington from the nano-mites.

 

[CaptainCanada]

What I mean by safe is that Will Smith and Denzel, etc. usually play black male heroes that don't have sex

I don't know about Washington, but Will Smith's popcorn roles have pretty much all had love interests, standard for the genre.

 

[DarKush]

What I mean by safe is that Will Smith and Denzel, etc. usually play black male heroes that don't have sex

I don't know about Washington, but Will Smith's popcorn roles have pretty much all had love interests, standard for the genre.

And when he does have love interests how many movies is that the central part of the movie? The wife/girlfriend is usually background and the relationship is chaste, if there is a relationship at all.

 

[CaptainCanada]

What I mean by safe is that Will Smith and Denzel, etc. usually play black male heroes that don't have sex

I don't know about Washington, but Will Smith's popcorn roles have pretty much all had love interests, standard for the genre.

And when he does have love interests how many movies is that the central part of the movie? The wife/girlfriend is usually background and the relationship is chaste, if there is a relationship at all.

I don't recall many blockbuster films where the central part of the movie is the love interest; usually they're a sideplot, in many cases totally extraneous but included just to have a female character and some sex appeal. He had love interests to varying degrees in Independence Day, both Men in Black movies, er, I've blotted Wild Wild West from my memory but Salma Hayek was in it, I don't remember the circumstances, in Bad Boys II, I, Robot, Hancock (where his lover was quite clearly at the core of the story; though that was an awful story), and, of course, in Hitch, which was a romantic comedy. In Ali and Enemy of the State he was married (true story in the former, of course).

 

[DarKush]

There are only a handful of black leading men/heroes in Hollywood. Period.

You know, we've had this same exact discussion before in the nearly identical threads that you start every time there's a major motion picture with a black actor in the lead.

Read this because it's very very important: Blacks are a minority in the United States.

The disproportional number of successful black actors has little to do with racism. Nobody is trying to say that black actors are inherently inferior. In this day and age it simply has more to do with the fact that there are few fewer black people in this country than white people. If you want a number, 13.5% of the people in America are black compared to the 74% that are white. It's as clear cut as that.

You are right that blacks are a minority in this country and it would be illogical to assume that they would have the lion's share of roles. However, I don't know if they are actually starring in 13.5% of Hollywood films. I can definitely say their numbers behind the scenes are not proportional. There has been a long push, or at least discussion, about getting more access behind the camera where the real decisions of what type of stories and who become stars are made.

However I think your post is neglecting the whole shameful history of depictions of blacks in Hollywood that have helped shape or reinforce negative depictions of blacks. That imagery, IMO repackaged for modern times, continues to limit roles for black actors. More blacks have gotten roles, and more are getting 'white' or 'race' neutral roles, but still we have a long way to go when there are more than one or two blacks who are given blockbuster films or when films starring more than three black folks are considered 'black' films and are usually shunned by non-black audiences. Or when non-black audiences are comfortable with seeing a range of black characters and experiences and even deeper, can find common understanding and empathy in the black experience, and consider it just as universal as a white experience.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Oh, shit, memories of Wild Wild West are starting to come back. Argh!

 

[DarKush]

less intelligent (Ripcord; in the movie they specifically pointed out that Duke's test scores were higher, why I don't know),

that wasn't Rip's intelligence. that was his scores in combat tests. like the holographic targt range thingy. and i think the point they were making was Duke was f'ing badass and Ripcord was good, but not good enough to be Joe material. the Joes, it was emphasised were/are the best of the best. the alpha dogs. and clearly the Joes are not racist - note Heavy Duty, Breaker and the Asian chick in the invisibility suit - it's just that Rip, whilst good enough for the US Special Forces was not good enough for the Joes. they take the top 1% of candidates, he fell into the 2nd % of scores. Hawk basically let him in because he needed Duke's co-operation on finding the Baroness and the warheads and probably figured if he kicked Rip out, Duke would follow out of loyalty to his friend. possibly, there was also some sympathy to Rip and Duke's desire to get even for the attack on the convoy.

Rip, however, did prove his worth by helping to save the day. let's not forget he saved Moscow and Washington from the nano-mites.

I would have to look again at that scene. I never said the JOEs were racist, though I did think it was telling that the writers felt a need to point out Ripcord's deficiency to make Duke, the white hero and central character, look even better than he already did. I thought that was unnecessary.

There were some interesting things about Rip. For one, I was surprised by the potential relationship with Scarlett. It didn't go any further than a kiss, and many fanboys, the majority I'm assuming are white, howled about that relationship. Of course for many I think their ire was stoked by Scarlett not picking Snakeyes. However, the writers made Ripcord actually more interesting. It will be interesting to see if the Rip-Scarlett thing gets developed further in a sequel. I think Hollywood is more comfortable portraying white men and non-white women than the other way around, so the Rip-Scar thing was a surprise.

Rip did provide the comic relief, but I didn't think it was over the top, and it helped lighten the movie. Despite having a bigger role in saving the day, and even more importantly surviving the film, I still Rip was designed to be a less serious character. Perhaps as a contrast to Duke, but still less serious. Of course, the opposite is Heavy Duty, a complete hardass. The main point I'm trying to make is that with black characters too often you don't get a complete person, you get a noble savage warrior or a clown, but rarely a 3-D portrayal. Of course movies like GI JOE don't really do that for any character usually (though I think for the Baroness, Duke, and Snakeyes all came pretty close), but when it comes to black characters in movies, I just feel that more often than not they are going to get shortchanged on character development.

 

[DarKush]

I don't know about Washington, but Will Smith's popcorn roles have pretty much all had love interests, standard for the genre.

And when he does have love interests how many movies is that the central part of the movie? The wife/girlfriend is usually background and the relationship is chaste, if there is a relationship at all.

I don't recall many blockbuster films where the central part of the movie is the love interest; usually they're a sideplot, in many cases totally extraneous but included just to have a female character and some sex appeal. He had love interests to varying degrees in Independence Day, both Men in Black movies, er, I've blotted Wild Wild West from my memory but Salma Hayek was in it, I don't remember the circumstances, in Bad Boys II, I, Robot, Hancock (where his lover was quite clearly at the core of the story; though that was an awful story), and, of course, in Hitch, which was a romantic comedy. In Ali and Enemy of the State he was married (true story in the former, of course).

You're right in the sense that most action movies don't focus on love or sex; that is usually a sideplot, if at all, but when it comes to black males they definitely don't go in that area. For Will, they will give him a wife, but rarely have him sharing an intimiate (not sexual per se) moment with her. In I Am Legend, his wife was in flashbacks, and when Will finally comes across a woman its at this point that he conveniently goes crazy and sacrifices himself. In Omega Man, Charleston Heston had sex with the black woman he came across by comparison. In Wild Wild West they started out with a hottub scene, I'll give you that, but the purported romance with Selma Hayek was skirted by having her reveal she was married at the end. In Bad Boys, he's supposed to be a player but they do a switch-a-roo to keep him away from Tea Leoni, though he does get Gabrielle Union (an upgrade IMO) in the second film, though you don't see him do anything too romantic with her. In Independence Day he has Vivica Fox, at her finest, but of course they give him an improbable romance between a NASA aspiring guy and a stripper with a heart of gold. In Enemy of the State, he and Regina King are having marital problems (which isn't all that bad, it happens), in Ali he finally has a sexual situation with Jada, but that movie didn't do all that well box office wise which goes back to my point about black sexuality making non-black audiences uncomfortable, and in Hancock they make Charlize Theron his kryptonite, but hey, they give him a bird to fly around with in the end so I guess its a fair trade. Jason Bateman gets Charlize and Will gets a damn bird. I felt like Hancock gave me the bird. They didn't even try to give him a relationship in I, Robot. I never saw Hitch so I don't know what happened in that film. Same with Men in Black films. I heard he got busy in Seven Pounds (don't know how well that one did box office wise), but of course he had to die at the end. And Woody Harrelson walked away with his girl.

For me, its an issue of showing the black hero be a complete hero, a complete guy that other guys want to be, that can put it down on the battlefield, boardroom, and/or bedroom. I was skimming this book called the Money Shot, about blacks in the porn industry, and I remember this quote from a white guy who revealed that he just couldn't watch black men having sex because he couldn't really live vicariously through them (I'm paraphrasing here). I think that goes on in non-porn films as well.

 

[Orintho]

Let me begin by stating that I don't select films or television programs on the basis of race (if I did, I wouldn't watch much). However I have noticed that there is one quota that ALWAYS seems to be present in big budget films: with rare exception, a white male is usually the hero. This is because the audience for genre films is primarily white and male, I get that. But is it asking too much to have filmmakers consider the black male more often?

Denzil Washington and Will Smith are two of the biggest stars in the world. Their films are guaranteed box office. White people in American voted for Barack Obama as President. Colin Powell was Secretary of State. Michael Jordan was once the most popular athlete on Earth. If all these things are true, why aren't there more black action heroes, or even villains (the evening news perpetuates this notion on a regular basis)?

Why have there been so few black male superheroes? Anyone? And why can't a black actor be cast in a traditional white role? Why not have an international spy thriller staring Chiwetel Ejiofor orAdewale Akinnyoye-Agbaje?

Anyway, I'm sure this posting will prompt the usual racist vitriol, but hey, it's an open forum in a free country, right?

Problem might be with some the management. I read once that despite his leftist politics, Oliver Stone is a racist. But his attitude is tolerated because he is a successful director.

Another thing might be the Hollywood environment - the wealth and exclusivity developing an economic bias which could become racism. Hollywood is controlled by wealthy people who lead exclusive lives and provide their offspring to an exclusive upbringing. And if the kids are talented or attractive, they will likely enter into the family business via nepotism and the cycle starts anew. I think that this is one reason that we see shows like the (all?) white 90210 more commonly on TV.

For a laugh, check out this article from over on Cracked on the Indiana Jones brainstorming sessions and pay attention to (as the writer phased it) Spielberg and Lucas's lacking "both respect and understanding for other cultures."

http://www.cracked.com/blog/indiana-jones/

Their comments reveal an ignorance, like those of sheltered, upper-class teens whose car accidentally gets lost in the 'wrong' side of town.

 

[Hermiod]

About Will Smith, I think Hermiod is wrong to suggest that he doesn't have a strong following in the black community. Many blacks have been fans and supporters since his Fresh Prince days and I would argue that though they might not be in the majority for box office at his films, that's because they are numerically a minority.

Of course they're in the minority when it comes to ticket sales, they are, after all, a minority.

What I'm saying is, I would be willing to bet that Smith's movies do not attract a disproportionately (i.e. above 13.5%) high black audience, despite him being at the very top of Hollywood's highest box office drawing actors.

And why should he ? He appeals to everyone else just as much as he appeals to black movie viewers. Isn't that a good thing ?

 

[Hermiod]

Problem might be with some the management. I read once that despite his leftist politics, Oliver Stone is a racist. But his attitude is tolerated because he is a successful director.

I once read that Tiger Woods slept with all those white women because he secretly wants to eliminate the white race through selective breeding.

Of course, that's a load of bullshit, but if you read it, it must be true!