the best BUMPY

[Too Much Fun]

As usual, I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent against the Cardassian make-up. I've always thought it looked stupid...one of the quintessential examples of an unconvincing Star Trek alien race that just looks like humans with a different skin colour and lame forehead make-up. I hate that ridiculous key-like shape on their foreheads.

It always annoys me when alien races have hair too. It makes them look too human. The Vorta would have been a lot better without that silly hair. I think the Ferengi and the Jem'hadar were much more believable as otherworldly beings, especially the Ferengi, whose noses and teeth were quite 'un-human' and heads (as well as ears, obviously) were very, very differently shaped than those of humans.

While their races weren't shown on DS9, I think for individual aliens, Tosk and Morn had the most impressive alien make-up. Maybe part of why I like their make-up so much is because they don't have the bumpy foreheads.

 

[DevilEyes]

As usual, I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent against the Cardassian make-up. I've always thought it looked stupid...one of the quintessential examples of an unconvincing Star Trek alien race that just looks like humans with a different skin colour and lame forehead make-up.

But pretty much every alien race in Star Trek looks like that. How are the Ferengi or Jem'Hadar or Tosk or Morn any more convincing as aliens than Cardassians or Klingons, or Vulcans, or Bajorans? They are all very humanoid, and they all look like humans with more or less makeup, and perhaps a mask. Some of them can even be as easily recognized under the makeup (I recognized Brian Thompson as Jem'Hadar, and lots of people can recognize Armin Shimerman and Max Grodenchik with or without the Ferengi makeup!).

If I was to throw away any suspension of disbelief, I'd say that a real alien would be a lot more likely not to look humanoid at all. Or anything like any species seen on Earth. Maybe they'd look like a blob or a mass of jelly. The only attempts of Star Trek to create non-humanoid aliens only worked for beings that lasted for one episode, like Horta, or the beings in "Encounter at Farpoint"; or, if the alien race was to have a larger role and last for multiple episodes, the aliens always end up taking humanoid form, so we could have actors in or out of makeup playing them (Q, Changelings, Prophets...).

But since you need to apply some suspension of disbelief to SF shows and movies, I am ready to accept humanoid aliens for the simple reason that stories work much better, and it is much easier to shoot a TV show, if you can have aliens played by actors, rather than as CGI-generated appearances.

 

[PSGarak]

Obviously, I'm biased toward Cardassians. I also liked the Jem'Hadar and very much liked the design for Tosk. My only complaint about Tosk, a very minor complaint, is that at some point there is a view of him looking down on him while he tries to lift something and you can very plainly see that he's wearing a rubber suit. It bunches weirdly. I'm not sure how or even if they could've fixed that.

The Ferengi are works of genius. While not attractive to me, I find their features fascinating, particularly the noses.

I thought the Miradorns were fairly disturbing looking, particularly that flap of skin at the throat and the way their foreheads bulged with that part in their hairline.

However, for reasons I can't begin to explain, the Bolians completely freak me out. They make me think of Cenobites. I know they're supposedly gregarious and don't seem to harbor sinister intentions, but I don't think I could ever turn my back on one without being afraid it was going to pull out a fillet knife and skin me then drag me back to some dark lair and consume my pathetic remains at its leisure. *shudders*

 

[Too Much Fun]

As usual, I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent against the Cardassian make-up. I've always thought it looked stupid...one of the quintessential examples of an unconvincing Star Trek alien race that just looks like humans with a different skin colour and lame forehead make-up.

Some of them can even be as easily recognized under the makeup (I recognized Brian Thompson as Jem'Hadar, and lots of people can recognize Armin Shimerman and Max Grodenchik with or without the Ferengi makeup!).

Yeah, I recognized Brian Thompson too, but only because I'm so familiar with his face from The X-Files (and to a lesser extent, Buffy the Vampire Slayer). I don't think that makes the Jem'Hadar make-up any less convincing. It doesn't have all these goofy details like the Cardassian make-up (like the aforementioned forehead shape) that obviously just look like little touches that make-up artists threw in because they thought they looked neat, rather than the more simple Jem'Hadar or Tosk make-up that looks more natural.

I was very impressed by how buried Armin Shimerman's face was under the Ferengi make-up. I knew his face very well from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", but if I hadn't known it advance of watching "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" that he was involved, I probably never would have recognized him both because of how differenly Quark speaks than his "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" character and how excellent the make-up is.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I gotta go with either the Klingons or the Talosians, which are indeed still very damn creepy to this day.

It was years before I found out they were all women, amazingly.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

However, for reasons I can't begin to explain, the Bolians completely freak me out. They make me think of Cenobites. I know they're supposedly gregarious and don't seem to harbor sinister intentions, but I don't think I could ever turn my back on one without being afraid it was going to pull out a fillet knife and skin me then drag me back to some dark lair and consume my pathetic remains at its leisure. *shudders*

Look out, PSGarak! There's a Bolian at the end of your quote!!!

 

[JiNX-01]

I think the Cardassians were a very good makeup job, as were the Hirogen, modern-era Tellarites, Benzites, Ferengi, Bolians, Voth and Xindi races.

I agree. I'd also add the modern Andorians' antennae.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I think the Cardassians were a very good makeup job, as were the Hirogen, modern-era Tellarites, Benzites, Ferengi, Bolians, Voth and Xindi races.

I agree. I'd also add the modern Andorians' antennae.

Oh, definitely! I'll add those to the list!

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

TMF--That particular shape COULD still be natural...nature on this world has done weirder things (anglerfish, platypus, etc.). At least in my own fanfic, it does have a functional purpose that I believe I've built a pretty strong case for, which is...

Spoiler: Cardassian foreheads

...a bioelectric field sensor. This sense is no longer all that strong in modern Cardassians, and is almost vestigial, but to me there is logic in that their ancestors would have needed such a sense. They obviously don't have as much in the way of peripheral vision as we do, and we also know their hearing isn't what human hearing is, so it makes sense that they would have an additional means of sensing what's going on around them. This allows them to still have eye ridges to shade their eyes from the sun (which in my own fanfic and canon are more light-sensitive than human eyes) AND still be aware of what's going on around them.

AND, add to this...we also know that other therapsid life forms from that planet--specifically the Cardassian vole--have an affinity for electrical conduits and are able to go in places that humanoids can't, thanks to this ability. Cardassian voles also show the same shape on their foreheads. It stands to reason that if they had a very strong sense for bioelectric fields (far stronger than a Cardassian person), that same sense could also be used for navigating artificially-generated fields with the exact result described: they become almost impossible to eradicate from Cardassian-made structures. Therefore, although I cannot prove it 100%, it does stand to reason that this is a strong possibility as to what the inverted teardrop shape on the Cardassian forehead is.

So that one actually makes a lot of sense to me. The ones I don't understand the purpose of, although I'm not going to complain about it, are some of what seem like more decorative ridges, like the ones on Bajoran noses, or Klingon foreheads. (Well, on second thought, the Klingon ones COULD have been for mating purposes way back when, as evidenced by the head-butting game.) But others, I'm not so sure I see the reason for.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

TMF--That particular shape COULD still be natural...nature on this world has done weirder things (anglerfish, platypus, etc.). At least in my own fanfic, it does have a functional purpose that I believe I've built a pretty strong case for, which is...

Spoiler: Cardassian foreheads

...a bioelectric field sensor. This sense is no longer all that strong in modern Cardassians, and is almost vestigial, but to me there is logic in that their ancestors would have needed such a sense. They obviously don't have as much in the way of peripheral vision as we do, and we also know their hearing isn't what human hearing is, so it makes sense that they would have an additional means of sensing what's going on around them. This allows them to still have eye ridges to shade their eyes from the sun (which in my own fanfic and canon are more light-sensitive than human eyes) AND still be aware of what's going on around them.

AND, add to this...we also know that other therapsid life forms from that planet--specifically the Cardassian vole--have an affinity for electrical conduits and are able to go in places that humanoids can't, thanks to this ability. Cardassian voles also show the same shape on their foreheads. It stands to reason that if they had a very strong sense for bioelectric fields (far stronger than a Cardassian person), that same sense could also be used for navigating artificially-generated fields with the exact result described: they become almost impossible to eradicate from Cardassian-made structures. Therefore, although I cannot prove it 100%, it does stand to reason that this is a strong possibility as to what the inverted teardrop shape on the Cardassian forehead is.

I for one find that a convincing argument, for what it's worth

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Cool.

And I should add this...

Spoiler: Cardassian physiology

We see that there are other vestigial nodes on the Cardassian body as well...however, these (in my own fanfic) do not function anymore; only the one on the forehead still has any sensory capacity left.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Cool.

And I should add this...

Spoiler: Cardassian physiology

We see that there are other vestigial nodes on the Cardassian body as well...however, these (in my own fanfic) do not function anymore; only the one on the forehead still has any sensory capacity left.

Ah, you mean

Spoiler: Cardassian physiology again

the one on the chest

?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Yep--that's what I mean.

 

[Myasishchev]

The spoon itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense other than in Nerys' framework, but the armor around the eye sockets and neck seems pretty natural to me. I mean, many animals protect their eyes with bone, including humans. The Cardassians protecting their eyes--and their necks--with an added layer of cartilage or tough scales actually seems like a bit of an improvement.

The veiny stuff on the sides of the head is kind of a mystery, though. I sort of presume it's some kind of cooling mechanism, carrying heat away from the brain through perforations in the skull.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Hmm...I dunno. I personally always interpreted it as an area that was supposed to look scaly from a distance, but that the makeup department kinda slacked on.

 

[PSGarak]

Look out, PSGarak! There's a Bolian at the end of your quote!!!

Yeah, and it looks like it's concealing that fillet knife I mentioned, too. The creepy things!

 

[Myasishchev]

Hmm...I dunno. I personally always interpreted it as an area that was supposed to look scaly from a distance, but that the makeup department kinda slacked on.

Maybe, but it's hard to say. I like to draw 'em as veins that continue under the hairline. Looks really cool on a Cardassian with no hair.

Speaking of Cardassian anatomy issues, in a major error I made on this one thing I was working on, I misremembered how those jaw-tendon-things worked. They're supposed to curved up to join the ear, becoming the pinna, specifically the helix and anti-helix, respectively. I had to redo a whole mess of Cardassian ears, and this after the process of scanning, digital cleanup, coloring and the works.

I am glad I caught it before I put it up, though. Thanks to SF Debris' serendipitous review of In the Pale Moonlight for that--I'd probably have gone on obliviously except for those clips of Garak and my "oh crap!" realization.

Out of curiosity, Nerys, where do you think the two vertical forehead ridges go under the hair? I envision them as moving toward one another and then continuing indefinitely, going down on either side of and protecting the spine, but afaik we've never gotten to see the vertebrae, due to the general prevalence of clothes along with the Cardassian preoccupation with the mullet.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I've seen multiple takes on how they work. For some Cardassians it seems to be a perfectly smooth curve--for others, there's a bit of an angling effect. (Look at Garak versus the early Cardassians, like Macet, for examples of what I mean by each.)

Now I'm curious...have you posted your drawings? I'd love to see!

 

[Myasishchev]

I've seen multiple takes on how they work. For some Cardassians it seems to be a perfectly smooth curve--for others, there's a bit of an angling effect. (Look at Garak versus the early Cardassians, like Macet, for examples of what I mean by each.)

Now I'm curious...have you posted your drawings? I'd love to see!

I did a few days ago. http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=99548

The collage in the first post is a largish image. The direct link works only intermittently for some reason, but clicking on the silly thing that looks like an advert appears to consistently work for the big picture.

Cardassians were by far the hardest to draw, which I think really is a kind of testament to the quality of the Cardassian makeup design. But I much prefer the simplicity of Vulcans--just point the ear, and you're done.

(Of course, Betazoids are even easier. You just give them black contacts.)

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've seen multiple takes on how they work. For some Cardassians it seems to be a perfectly smooth curve--for others, there's a bit of an angling effect. (Look at Garak versus the early Cardassians, like Macet, for examples of what I mean by each.)

Now I'm curious...have you posted your drawings? I'd love to see!

I did a few days ago. http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=99548

The collage in the first post is a largish image. The direct link works only intermittently for some reason, but clicking on the silly thing that looks like an advert appears to consistently work for the big picture.

Cardassians were by far the hardest to draw, which I think really is a kind of testament to the quality of the Cardassian makeup design. But I much prefer the simplicity of Vulcans--just point the ear, and you're done.

(Of course, Betazoids are even easier. You just give them black contacts.)

Thanks for the link, and conversation. I am finding it most interesting to follow here at work..

Rob