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Spoilers The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos?

  • Total voters
    75
The Scrooge Doctor said:
...which they've already done with The Master.
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Actually, modern Who has been providing explanations for the Master's return. We got exposition about his role in the Time War in The Sound of Drums, and TEOT showed him being resurrected. Granted, at first when Missy showed up we didn't really get much of an explanation of how the Simm Master overcame his degenerative Skeletor problems, though one was sort of provided when Simmy showed up in season 10. We did get an explanation in The Witch's Familiar of how Missy survived Cyber-Brigadier shooting her though.
 
Okay, I admit I had forgotten there was an explanation in "The Witch's Familiar" (I don't even remember what that explanation was). I was mostly thinking about Missy when I said that, including Simm to Missy (which isn't really explained all that well, more on the vague terms a la the classic series).
 
Really? Isn’t it pretty clear via dialogue and implication that she wakes up not remembering what happened from regenerating and then gets to the Master’s TARDIS (or whatever) on a ship full of cybermen who are vital to her first appearance?
 
The episode was a rock solid "8" until Ryan told Graham that he loved him. Shot it up to a 10 for me, as that was the final piece of the awesome puzzle for me. I've been waiting the whole season for him to finally say it.
 
BritishSeaPower said:
Really? Isn’t it pretty clear via dialogue and implication that she wakes up not remembering what happened from regenerating and then gets to the Master’s TARDIS (or whatever) on a ship full of cybermen who are vital to her first appearance?
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And is already ‘turning good’ in a twisted way. Giving the Doctor an army. But of course the Master was already turning good when he took Rassilon and Gallifrey back into the time lock.
 
jaime said:
But of course the Master was already turning good when he took Rassilon and Gallifrey back into the time lock.
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Eh, not really. The Master spared the Doctor in TEOT only because his hatred of Rassilon and desire for vengeance for having his life ruined by the Sound of Drums far surpassed whatever animosity he felt towards the Doctor.
 
Ooh, ooh, one more thing: I love love LOVE how The Doctor doesn't give in to revenge and the spilling of blood as a means of recompense. She warns Graham that if he kills "Tim Shaw," he will no longer have a place with her as part of the group. It just makes me love The Doctor all the more.

That said, I did giggle when Graham shot "Tim Shaw" in the foot and was justifying it with Ryan. Their back and forth on the gray area-ness of the act was fun. :lol:
 
The Wormhole said:
Eh, not really. The Master spared the Doctor in TEOT only because his hatred of Rassilon and desire for vengeance for having his life ruined by the Sound of Drums far surpassed whatever animosity he felt towards the Doctor.
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Undercut by him telling the Doctor to get out of the way. He could have harmed the Doctor and chose not to. He also chose to undo Gallifrey returning rather than simply executing Rassilon.
 
Amaris said:
Ooh, ooh, one more thing: I love love LOVE how The Doctor doesn't give in to revenge and the spilling of blood as a means of recompense. She warns Graham that if he kills "Tim Shaw," he will no longer have a place with her as part of the group. It just makes me love The Doctor all the more.

That said, I did giggle when Graham shot "Tim Shaw" in the foot and was justifying it with Ryan. Their back and forth on the gray area-ness of the act was fun. :lol:
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The Doctor lies.
Other companions have killed before.
So has the Doctor.
 
Amaris said:
Ooh, ooh, one more thing: I love love LOVE how The Doctor doesn't give in to revenge and the spilling of blood as a means of recompense. She warns Graham that if he kills "Tim Shaw," he will no longer have a place with her as part of the group. It just makes me love The Doctor all the more.

That said, I did giggle when Graham shot "Tim Shaw" in the foot and was justifying it with Ryan. Their back and forth on the gray area-ness of the act was fun. :lol:
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Of course if she'd killed Tim Shaw the populations of those 5 planets would still be alive now... (unless I misheard and the populations had survived?)
 
That's an interesting concept that deserves more exploration on the show. In the Doctor's line of business, killing can sometimes save more lives. How does she feel about that?

I don't think the show will address it. But, yeah, killing Tim could've saved the inhabitants of five planets.
 
jaime said:
The Doctor lies.
Other companions have killed before.
So has the Doctor.
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The Doctor makes mistakes, and is flawed. The goal should always be to improve one's self, and to try and make recompense for past actions.

Starkers said:
Of course if she'd killed Tim Shaw the populations of those 5 planets would still be alive now... (unless I misheard and the populations had survived?)
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Maybe. The very nature of The Doctor's ability to move through time and space kind of muddles that. What has happened may not have happened yet and what will happen can be changed once what will happen did happen and could happen again depending upon where The Doctor ends up in that continuum. I would be against killing Tim Shaw, anyway.
 
Starkers said:
Odd that Chibnall shies away from death given he had 11 nuke David Bradley in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship :lol:
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A good man does not need rules when he goes to war.

Mr Awe said:
That's an interesting concept that deserves more exploration on the show. In the Doctor's line of business, killing can sometimes save more lives. How does she feel about that?

I don't think the show will address it. But, yeah, killing Tim could've saved the inhabitants of five planets.
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In audio, 8 has a soliloquy about how he's not going to think about the numbers, because if he did that then he would end up murdering millions to save billions, which is not something that he wants to do (AGAIN?).
 
jaime said:
Undercut by him telling the Doctor to get out of the way. He could have harmed the Doctor and chose not to. He also chose to undo Gallifrey returning rather than simply executing Rassilon.
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Again, Rassilon was his priority. Why use a lightning attack on the Doctor and risk giving Rassilon time to prepare a defense, when he can just tell the Doctor to get out of the way and catch Rassilon off guard?

Also, he could have been repaying the Doctor for not shooting him in the head a few minutes earlier.
 
Starkers said:
Of course if she'd killed Tim Shaw the populations of those 5 planets would still be alive now...
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Don't think it's nearly that clear-cut. Things didn't exactly go smoothy in the confrontation with him at the end of The Woman Who Fell To Earth. She also had no way of knowing where he'd end up or what he'd do. Should she have killed him just in case? Easy to judge in hindsight.

It actually unnerves me how easily killing can be justified, even the killing of innocents, even the killing of lots of innocents. They're not variables in a calculation, or points on a graph - they're people. Could you honestly, truly say you yourself could go through with it? Or live with it if you did?

The Doctor couldn't.
 
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