The Anti-Riker Collective

[Herbert]

I loved how in the first couple seasons every time he strutted into a turbolift, he would instantly do an about face, inches away from lift doors as they closed. Amuses me every time. Do you suppose he stayed that way, staring at the door until the lift reached whatever deck he was going to?

 

[Herbert]

I'm pretty sure the show runners once said that if they had come up with the idea for Thomas Riker sooner than the second-to-last season, they would have replaced Will with him on the show.
Which, imho, would have been an all-around improvement. Simply because Riker's ark should have been done after BoBW, while Thomas would have had room to grow on the Enterprise.

That would have been pretty cool. Finally promote Will to Captain of his own ship and then bring Tom on board as a new character. It would have brought a whole new dimension to the show. Would he be a bridge officer though?

 

[Orphalesion]

That would have been pretty cool. Finally promote Will to Captain of his own ship and then bring Tom on board as a new character. It would have brought a whole new dimension to the show. Would he be a bridge officer though?

I guess they would have probably promoted Data to first officer (a good new scenario for his character as well) and given Data's old bridge station to Thomas. At least that seems most logical/the easiest.
Or maybe Worf instead of Data.

It would really have been the best solution to have Thomas replace Will. You get to keep Frakes on the show, solve the problem of Will going nowhere, and get a new character to explore.
And I bet Frakes would have loved playing both Rikers on occasions where Captain Riker and his new ship team up with the Enterprise.

 

[Mojochi]

I guess they would have probably promoted Data to first officer (a good new scenario for his character as well) and given Data's old bridge station to Thomas. At least that seems most logical/the easiest.
Or maybe Worf instead of Data.

Worf as 1st officer, instead of Data? I can't imagine that. Data is 2nd in command. I'd think the natural progression would be to have him assume Will's spot, & to put Worf as #1 sort of passes Data over.

In fact, depending on how Picard likes his top spots to be placed, it might not be possible to post Tom to Data's old position, in its entirety. He could man the ops post in itself, but it's doubtful he'd ever be 2nd officer, like Data, when you have Worf on the bridge, who is more deserving imho.

So either Worf would have to take over ops & the 2nd officer position, like was planned in The Most Toys, or Worf would assume the 2nd officer role, but remain at tactical, in which case, does he remain as security chief? because I always assumed Data's role as #2 came with its own responsibilities, like a chief of operations type thing, which could place him slightly over chief of security, engineering, & sciences... maybe all functions etc...

In truth, these are all vital roles on Picard's coveted Enterprise senior staff, & is Tom ready for or deserving of that, after 8 years out of service? I suppose from a logistic point of view, the option that makes the most sense, for filling Will's vacancy, would be Data becomes #1, Worf becomes #2, & takes over Ops. Then you can maybe put Tom at Tactical, & have him take over as Chief of Security. That's the neatest layout

The problem with it, is you have now REALLY shifted the whole dynamic of the bridge crew. The whole show will look like they played musical chairs. Plus, from a character angle, these characters are now in the weirdest placement for the individuals. Worf seems suited to tactical & chief of security, but seems an odd fit for Ops & sciences. Alternatively, Data seems perfect for Ops & Sciences, but a little bit "fish out of water" as a commanding presence, & Riker as tactical & chief of security? I guess it's the least off fit of the bunch, but it still seems odd.

I suppose you could also heap Worf down with being chief of security, AND 2nd officer, AND the tactical posting, & post Tom at Ops & nothing more, but boy that really sucks the wind out of the ops post. Hmmm... maybe they didn't make the move to remove Will for good reason after all. Things get sticky pretty quick

 

[Orphalesion]

Snip for space

No offense, but I think you are overestimating the impact of shifting two characters in their seats on the bridge. Both Worf and Geordi changed their positions permanently at the start of season 2, after all. It would be odd for a couple of episodes, then it'd be the new normal. It's hardly a reason not to make a character change that could revitalize things.
Also I wasn't suggesting making Tom becoming 2nd officer. I don't think of Ops is strictly tied to that rank, but Data just happens to be both, like Spock just happens to be both First Officer and Science Officer on Kirk's Enterprise. Also I always felt that manning ops was ore incidental to Data's character, just there to get him into scenes on the bridge.
And in an earlier concept for TNG it was Data instead of Troi who sat in the centre seats with Picard and Riker.
So we have Lt. Riker on Ops, Second Officer Worf on Tactical and Data as First Officer....or they take the opportunity to make Troi become serious about her work earlier, seek out a promotion and *she* becomes First Officer (changing into uniform as well in the process) giving the character more function on the bridge and a stronger presence on the show in general. (Data would still fill the three centre seats with Picard and Troi)

Or we forego it all and make Thomas helmsman instead, a position frequently filled by Ensigns, but truth be told, I'd rather see him in Gold than Red to differentiate the character from Will.
Also Worf as first officer was based on some of the parallel universes in Parallels, where he filled that rank.
As tp how realistic the whole thing is...well, how strictly "realistic" was it for Geordi to suddenly be promoted to Chief Engineer of the Flagship of the Federation? It's a show after all, so the whole thing would be based on character progression, TV show logistics, what opens up the best possibilities for the show and whether they thought that Data's makeup bites with command red or not rather than strict adherence to military protocol.

Also putting the characters in new positions where they have to adapt would be nothing bad, imho.

 

[USS Firefly]

With Tom Riker the show would be a lot more interesting

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I see the point about his sometimes condescending attitude toward subordinates, but I don't see his womanizing as the toxic kind. An example of this is in Vengeance Factor when he expresses he wants women to be his equals, not subservient to him. I don't recall any cases other than Troi of him having a relationship with someone below him in the command chain.

 

[Herbert]

In truth, these are all vital roles on Picard's coveted Enterprise senior staff, & is Tom ready for or deserving of that, after 8 years out of service? I suppose from a logistic point of view, the option that makes the most sense, for filling Will's vacancy, would be Data becomes #1, Worf becomes #2, & takes over Ops. Then you can maybe put Tom at Tactical, & have him take over as Chief of Security. That's the neatest layout

To me, the fact that was out of service for 8 years would dictate what type of position he would get, at least until he gets his legs under himself again. I don't think you put a guy like that in a major position so quickly. Who knows, he may even need counciling and that would have made for an interesting dynamic with Troi

 

[JesterFace]

I'm not against Riker, William is this case. Fortunately Thomas didn't replace him. If Thomas did replace William his place wouldn't have been on the bridge, maybe not on the whole ship. 8 years is a long time, there would be many things he would have to learn again, perhaps visit the Starfleet academy for technical updates and information.

 

[Roboturner913]

I notice in my journeys through Star Trek fan groups that second only to conservatives is the community dislike of Will Rikers’ character. Why is this?

Can you share some insight to why you and others have such a critical view?

probably because he's a conservative

 

[at Quark's]

I never liked Riker as much as some of the others on the show. Not exactly sure why, though. But it's not as if I hated the character.

It might be because he initially comes across to me as someone who was very career minded, and only seemed to take the XO position as a mandatory stepping stone towards captainhood - or whatever his goal was at the time, whereas many of the others really seemed to organically belong at their position, Picard, Beverley, and Data, to mention just a few. Then, for some hard to fathom reason he keeps turning down those captaincy offers in later years - presumably because he feels he still has much to learn from Picard? - making Riker fall into some kind of vacuum from that point on - a character that just happens to be the XO of the ship which doesn't feel like his ultimate call in life but neither is his position as transient as it should be.

Oh, and there's the womanizing and being a bit of a dick part too, already mentioned by other posters. And on the bright side it's true he can be decisive and a man of action when needed. Somehow I can't really identify with the guy.

 

[Batai]

Riker's womanizing does come home to roost a bit in that scene with Troi and Ro in Ten Forward.

 

[shivkala]

I don't have a strong opinion on Riker, to be honest. What Culture's ranking of every first officer put him high on their list, and I do agree with their reasoning.

However, I'm surprised at how many times the destruction of the Enterprise-D has come up as a strike against him on this list. I just don't see how he could have done any better, or how Picard being there would have affected things. If anyone's at fault, it would be Geordi (though unwittingly), since his VISOR was the key to the Duras sisters getting the shield frequency. Once they had that, it seemed they landed some devastating blows. Immediately Riker consults Worf on the particular model of BoP which leads to Data finding a way to defeat them. Again, how would Picard have saved the day where Riker failed?

 

[Mage]

Awesome real life character. Aware of his own flaws, working to correct them, not always succeeding.

The reason people don't like him is because he reminds them of themselves. Slaving in the same old job all the time, hitting on women while they know maybe that's not always respectful. Aware they can do more but not fighting for it because dammit, that comfortzone does feel comfortable doesn't it?

Honestly? Yes, when it comes to fictional characters, I think the ones we hate the most are the ones closest to us, and the ones we loves the most are the ones we want to be.

So next time you hate/dislike a character........

 

[Nightdiamond]

I never realized some people thought of him that way. He always seemed like the "cool" first officer to me.

But he does probably has some character flaws that look outright rude or dickish. I just notice he had a habit of loudly cutting people off mid sentence, when they're trying to speak to them, even if they're trying to give him information or something.

Maybe it was his command style or something, but you look at it again, it doesn't always come off right.
It's like something you never thought about before, and then one day after you've seen a few times, you think "Is this guy being a jerk?".

And it could be argued that he dumped Troi (stood her up) while she was waiting to meet him at a certain place, because he thought his career was more important.

Although that has been interpreted differently by the characters themselves for some reasons.

And that he didn't seem all that approachable with lower officers trying to make friendly with him.

One thing that does make Riker tops, is that in Chain of Command" he spoke up for his crew and stood up to a higher boss when they said they were being overworked. Authority figures and bosses almost never do that.

 

[Lance]

I don't hate Riker. I just wish he was who he was supposed to be. Half of TNG makes no sense because they abandoned the 20 year mission premise right away. Once you toss that out you lose the need for families on the ship and you lose the reason why Riker doesn't accept a command. If these people were on a real trek into deep space Riker wouldn't have the opportunity to have his own ship. He'd have chosen this executive position for life and we'd have to watch him deal with that, as he does in the first season by sneaking away what responsibilities he can from Picard. As the show became a more known-space affair, Riker sticking to the Enterprise becomes unbelievable and all his ambition washes away. The guy becomes useless and bland, a lot like everyone else.

I'm pretty sure the show runners once said that if they had come up with the idea for Thomas Riker sooner than the second-to-last season, they would have replaced Will with him on the show.
Which, imho, would have been an all-around improvement. Simply because Riker's ark should have been done after BoBW, while Thomas would have had room to grow on the Enterprise.

I hypothesised a while ago on here about, what if TNG had only lasted three seasons just like the original Star Trek, and had the full BOBW two-parter as the show's grand finale, in a great many ways not much is missed. Sure, we lose some decent episodes, Darmok etc, but in terms of a logical place to end the show BOBW just feels so right. It even ends with Riker, still wearing four pips, telling Picard he knows what he wants, but not actually telling us, leaving us with a distinct impression he might move on.

Have a few years in between, then relaunch them on the Big Screen, like with TOS, with First Contact picking up many years later but still being a logical follow-up from BOBW. Replace Worf with Riker on the Defiant and the transition would be almost seamless, and would make more sense to Riker's character arc. Because like you say, his character effectively peaks too early, then just kind of... hangs around. He doesn't ever even really get major character development after BOBW.

 

[Mojochi]

Riker's womanizing does come home to roost a bit in that scene with Troi and Ro in Ten Forward.

Well, that & the fact that him not keeping it in his pants nearly got the whole ship taken over by an addictive game. Nobody ever calls him up about that one. That shit was ALL Riker.

 

[at Quark's]

Well, that & the fact that him not keeping it in his pants nearly got the whole ship taken over by an addictive game. Nobody ever calls him up about that one. That shit was ALL Riker.

I don't think that beyond the exploitation of one of his weak areas, his 'not keeping it in his pants' is to blame here in particular. If he is to be blamed, I'd say it should simply be for letting down his guard. And the rest of the crew whom he'd introduced the device to are just as much to blame for letting their guard down, and getting addicted. Certainly a Troi or a dr. Crusher should have recognised the addictive potential of the device and have been a bit more critical, or some as of yet non-affected officers that saw the behaviour of some of the addicted officers.

 

[USS Firefly]

I don't have a strong opinion on Riker, to be honest. What Culture's ranking of every first officer put him high on their list, and I do agree with their reasoning.

However, I'm surprised at how many times the destruction of the Enterprise-D has come up as a strike against him on this list. I just don't see how he could have done any better, or how Picard being there would have affected things. If anyone's at fault, it would be Geordi (though unwittingly), since his VISOR was the key to the Duras sisters getting the shield frequency. Once they had that, it seemed they landed some devastating blows. Immediately Riker consults Worf on the particular model of BoP which leads to Data finding a way to defeat them. Again, how would Picard have saved the day where Riker failed?

If he fired everything at the old BOP, the old ship wouldn't stand a chance and the Enterprise D would only have minor damage

 

[Mojochi]

I don't think that beyond the exploitation of one of his weak areas, his 'not keeping it in his pants' is to blame here in particular. If he is to be blamed, I'd say it should simply be for letting down his guard. And the rest of the crew whom he'd introduced the device to are just as much to blame for letting their guard down, and getting addicted. Certainly a Troi or a dr. Crusher should have recognised the addictive potential of the device and have been a bit more critical, or some as of yet non-affected officers that saw the behaviour of some of the addicted officers.

If you can't let your guard down with one of your closest friends, offering some fun for you, then who can you let your guard down with? Bev & Deanna would have no reason to suspect Will would introduce them to something dangerous. That's what was so pernicious about it. Even Picard, who is arguably the most socially isolated person on the ship fell prey, because there was at least one person there (Bev) with whom he lets his guard down. The game spread (& rapidly enough to go unnoticed until it was too late) because of the chain of personal trust that runs through the ship

Riker let his guard down with a relative stranger, because he wanted in her pants