The Amazing Spider-Man Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Saul]

With Sam's first I felt complete rage, but with this'n I feel nothing.

What's worse?

Seems like quite a few don't like Raimi's Spider-Man. I thought Raimi's first Spider-Man was done quite well. 2 was brilliant. 3 was meh but I still enjoyed it more than ASM. Spider-Man released in 2002 was a game changer for comic book movies, it was a step up to something else moving away from what was done in Batman and Superman films. ASM is just another comic book movie.

 

[Warped9]

I thought Raimi's first Spider-Man was done quite well. 2 was brilliant. 3 was meh but I still enjoyed it more than ASM. Spider-Man released in 2002 was a game changer for comic book movies, it was a step up to something else moving away from what was done in Batman and Superman films. ASM is just another comic book movie.

Agreed.

 

[davejames]

Seems like quite a few don't like Raimi's Spider-Man. I thought Raimi's first Spider-Man was done quite well. 2 was brilliant. 3 was meh but I still enjoyed it more than ASM. Spider-Man released in 2002 was a game changer for comic book movies, it was a step up to something else moving away from what was done in Batman and Superman films. ASM is just another comic book movie.

I enjoyed ASM, but to me the Raimi movie (flawed though it is) came much closer to capturing the fun, lighthearted spirit of the character.

I'm fine with Spidey's world being a darker and gloomier place, but I don't really want Spidey himself to be that way.

 

[Warped9]

I enjoyed ASM, but to me the Raimi movie (flawed though it is) came much closer to capturing the fun, lighthearted spirit of the character.

I'm fine with Spidey's world being a darker and gloomier place, but I don't really want Spidey himself to be that way.

True.

 

[Captain Craig]

My only real gripe with the 2002 film was Gwen should've been the first girlfriend and organic web shooters. Those are more "how is it as an adaptation" than "does the story work" type complaint.
The Raimi film has tons more heart and believability in the first hour than TASM does.
You buy into the Uncle Ben/Peter aspect way, way more than what Webb did for starters.

 

[Samurai8472]

It's funny how this movie was supposedly going cheap with all the practical effects like swinging and giving garfield way less money than tobey during the first movie.

And yet it's 230-250 million dollar budget

Guy he was forced to use Venom when his prior script had already been approved.

Saying a non human face as a baddie wouldn't be accepted is a bit WTF excuse that does not jive imo.

Maybe that's why lizard never had a snout in the movie

It's alway interesting to read how avi arad act like the devil on raimis shoulder

"It was really about Peter, Mary Jane, Harry and that new character...
...Avi Arad, my partner and the former president of Marvel at the time, said to me, 'Sam, ... you're not paying attention to the fans enough,'" Raimi said. "'You need to think about them. You've made two movies now with your favorite villains, and now you're about to make another one with your favorite villains. The fans love Venom. He is the fan favorite. All Spider-Man readers love Venom, and even though you came from '70s Spider-Man, this is what the kids are thinking about. Please incorporate Venom. Listen to the fans now.' And so that's really where I realized, 'OK, maybe I don't have the whole Spider-Man universe in my head. I need to learn a little bit more about Spider-Man and maybe incorporate this villain to make some of the real die-hard fans of Spider-Man finally happy.'""

 

[Captain Craig]

Gotta love that "playing it nice for PR purposes" spin that Sam gave it in those interviews. As each interview went on it got easier to read between the lines.

Avi: Sam I have convinced the Sony exces we need Venom, fans love him, put him in the movie.
Sam: But the shooting script we approved doesn't have Venom. We start shooting in 3months.
Avi: Put him in the movie
Sam: Are we pushing shooting back to allow me time to...
Avi: -Sam, just get it done.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Seems like quite a few don't like Raimi's Spider-Man. I thought Raimi's first Spider-Man was done quite well. 2 was brilliant. 3 was meh but I still enjoyed it more than ASM. Spider-Man released in 2002 was a game changer for comic book movies, it was a step up to something else moving away from what was done in Batman and Superman films. ASM is just another comic book movie.

I believe exactly what you believe, only the opposite.

The first Raimi film was incredibly cheesy, with a villain who resembled a Power Ranger more than the Green Goblin. However, it showed promise. Two was much better. Three was easily the dullest and most convoluted of the three. ASM was consistently entertaining, in my opinion, and had much more heart than the tired display Spider-Man 3 ended up being.

 

[Warped9]

My only real gripe with the 2002 film was Gwen should've been the first girlfriend and organic web shooters. Those are more "how is it as an adaptation" than "does the story work" type complaint.
The Raimi film has tons more heart and believability in the first hour than TASM does.
You buy into the Uncle Ben/Peter aspect way, way more than what Webb did for starters.

I didn't't mind the organic web shooters. But I agree that it should have been Gwen first rather than MJ. I recall a comment that they went with MJ because supposedly more people were familiar with her. Still it worked well enough for what it was.

 

[Captain Craig]

My only real gripe with the 2002 film was Gwen should've been the first girlfriend and organic web shooters. Those are more "how is it as an adaptation" than "does the story work" type complaint.
The Raimi film has tons more heart and believability in the first hour than TASM does.
You buy into the Uncle Ben/Peter aspect way, way more than what Webb did for starters.

I didn't"t mind the organic web shooters. But I agree that it should have been Gwen first rather than MJ. I recall a comment that they went with MJ because supposedly more people were familiar with her. Still it worked well enough for what it was.

I should've also said I missed not having any purple on Green Goblin but DaFoe brought the maniacal side out so well I accepted it. I had hoped that for Spidey 3 Harry would add the purple to it and they would move it more towards "right", instead we got the flying snowboard X Games attired look.

 

[davejames]

Yeah the Goblin costume didn't really work. But to be fair it's hard to think of one that WOULD.

He's just a very silly looking character.

 

[Warped9]

Yeah the Goblin costume didn't really work. But to be fair it's hard to think of one that WOULD.

He's just a very silly looking character.

I can't argue that.

For me SM3 stumbled because of trying to cram too much into it. I thought the Sandman was a poor villain---he's just a petty street crook with no grand agenda. He certainly had no idea of offing Spidey until Venom came along and then in the end he was prepared to just walk away rather than try finishing Spidey off. Sandman's heart just wasn't in it.

Osborn's performance enhancing stuff did pretty much the same thing as the black goo: exacerbate one's darker tendencies and inhibit normal inhibitions in addition to enhancing physical ability. The question remains: what would Harry have gone on to do beyond just trying to revenge his father's death? Could he have been a complete villain or was he really just obsessed with killing Peter? This should have been the main story IMO and Harry could have been the one to try to corrupt Sandman if needed.

To me Venom was extraneous, and apparently Raimi thought so too. Including him (at the suits' insistence) fucked everything up. Venom could easily have been done later. At best we could have had a foreshadowing by having the goo merge with Eddie Brock at the end of the film.

 

[Gaith]

For me SM3 stumbled because of trying to cram too much into it.

And yet - as you point out - Sandman was a lame-ass villain, and Harry had become a one-note revenge machine. Who then gets partial amnesia to make him a good guy again - how contrived is that? I never much liked the Harry character, but by resetting him, they made him even more annoying.

Makes me wonder if maybe the studio saw that Raimi was cooking up a big fat nothing, and desperately demanded Venom's inclusion in order to give the movie some kind of menace?


Regardless, ASM scores major points by me for not having Harry around. His and Peter's friendship always felt forced and unconvincing, written to justify Peter's connection to Norman more than anything else.

 

[Saul]

Yeah the Goblin costume didn't really work. But to be fair it's hard to think of one that WOULD.

He's just a very silly looking character.

To be fair the Goblin costume for the first film had problems and what they ended up with wasn't what they had planned. With that said Willem Dafoe could have worn a giant cheese costume and still make it work.

I found ASM lacking heart. I don't mind the dark tone but Parker's character goes from awesome guy to awesome guy with powers.

 

[davejames]

I thought the Sandman was the best part of that movie myself. Thomas Haden Church made him feel incredibly human and sympathetic, and his powers and look were different from any supervillain we've seen on screen before.

It's a shame Raimi wasn't able to just tell that story, because I think the movie could have actually been as strong as the previous one.

 

[Pauln6]

Guy he was forced to use Venom when his prior script had already been approved.

Saying a non human face as a baddie wouldn't be accepted is a bit WTF excuse that does not jive imo.

Maybe that's why lizard never had a snout in the movie

It's alway interesting to read how avi arad act like the devil on raimis shoulder

"It was really about Peter, Mary Jane, Harry and that new character...
...Avi Arad, my partner and the former president of Marvel at the time, said to me, 'Sam, ... you're not paying attention to the fans enough,'" Raimi said. "'You need to think about them. You've made two movies now with your favorite villains, and now you're about to make another one with your favorite villains. The fans love Venom. He is the fan favorite. All Spider-Man readers love Venom, and even though you came from '70s Spider-Man, this is what the kids are thinking about. Please incorporate Venom. Listen to the fans now.' And so that's really where I realized, 'OK, maybe I don't have the whole Spider-Man universe in my head. I need to learn a little bit more about Spider-Man and maybe incorporate this villain to make some of the real die-hard fans of Spider-Man finally happy.'""

It doesn't surprise that Raimi was aming for Spidey from the 70s, I think this is why I felt he hit the mark. No doubt modern readers and non-readers thought it was cheesy but that is exactly what Spidey was back then.

The black suit was a good opportunity to break up PP & MJ like they did, and it set us up for Venom but tagging him on the end was stupid. I feel the same way about Two-Face in Dark Knight though so clearly my view isn't shared by producers.

Back-to-back 4 & 5 giving Venom & Carnage a decent span would have been really cool actually.

I think the 3 movie deals they use habitually work against these comic franchises. The directors and producers rush to squeeze in as much as they can and then reboot. It's getting annoying.

Changing the cast can work but chainging the tone too much can be a disaster - see Batman & Robin. A darker S3 could have led nicely to ASM without the need to waste 45 minutes on retelling the origin story. Oh well, what's done is done.

I'm still keeping everything crossed that Singer isn't done with the original X-men movie timeline...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Still doesn't explain how the budget for ASM ended up massive at 230 million even with an entirely new cast for the reboot. ASM cost more to make than The Avengers!

For one thing, it has to absord any of the pre-production costs that the unmade Spider-Man 4 incurred. Which would include buying out the contracts of Raimi and Maguire if they had pay-or-play deals on the unmade film(s).

 

[Mach5]

I just heard that in Zagreb (Croatia) the video and audio were out of sync throughout most of the movie.


I'm curious, if something like that happened in the US, UK etc., would you guys ask for your money back?

 

[RoJoHen]

If that happened, I would get up and tell someone and hope that they could fix it. If not, yes, I would absolutely ask for a refund.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How broken is Gwen on the inside?

Why the the hell did she fall for the creepy kid who has mastabatory aids of her on his computer?

The stalker who follows her to work?

The rapists that tries to break into her bedroom window?

Or the sociopath who runs through the streets at night thrashing people to within an inch of their lives?

Why?

Not even daddy issues would explain this choice in a perfect mate who just might be minutes away into metamorphosing into a 20 foot tall carnivorous spider... Although?

If Peter did turn into a spider, at the climax of sex with Gwen, he would demand and insist that she eat him, so that he could get off too?

So I suppose it's less dangerous for her, if Peter turns into a spider than if he stays a man.