The Amazing Spider-Man Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Captain Craig]

^^^
Because the actors contract calls for "x" amount of face time. I'm guessing. Otherwise why would this happen so often. It's a bit cliche now. The first time I really noticed it was for Batman Returns when he rips his cowl off. Since then it's just gotten worse.

Allegedly the new Dredd movie is going to buck that. V for Vendetta is the only other one to stay true where needed. I've read Urban is masked the whole time.

 

[Dream]

^^^
Because the actors contract calls for "x" amount of face time. I'm guessing. Otherwise why would this happen so often. It's a bit cliche now. The first time I really noticed it was for Batman Returns when he rips his cowl off. Since then it's just gotten worse.

I always found that silly. Only superheroes with public identities like Iron Man and the Fantasic Four or maskless heroes like Superman and Thor should be going around without a mask on.

 

[CaptainCanada]

^^^
Because the actors contract calls for "x" amount of face time. I'm guessing. Otherwise why would this happen so often.

They do it because they want to show the actor's face as much as possible. That's well-established (Mark Steven Johnson even talked about how, when making Daredevil, executives told him they didn't think he should be wearing a mask, because it made no sense to hire Ben Affleck and then hide his face).

I don't know that it was necessary for him to take off his mask to save the kid. Why not just persuade him verbally that he's just a regular guy, or tell a joke, or try something other than just taking his mask off?

It was presented as necessary in-universe. Maybe something else might have worked, but it was a tense situation on a pretty tight clock (the "persuasion" one, in particular, would have taken longer in all likelihood).

 

[davejames]

To be honest I've always thought it was kinda cool to see Spidey or Batman or Iron Man without their masks on. Somehow it makes it feel a bit more "real" when you see the actors actually wearing the suit.

Plus it's kind of a necessary evil at the end of a movie when you really NEED to see the actor's emotions (since there's no thought balloons or nonstop narration to explain everything). Especially with Spidey, who's completely covered up.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

To be honest I've always thought it was kinda cool to see Spidey or Batman or Iron Man without their masks on.

I don't mind seeing them without their mask. I do think it is kind of funny when Spider-Man, who in the movies clearly is wearing a one piece suit with no separation between the mask and neck can suddenly take his mask off.

Even funnier is when the mask is shown to be all fabric with no supports, but when he wears the mask you can't see his jaw move, so there is clearly something in their holding his face in shape!

 

[Warped9]

To be honest I've always thought it was kinda cool to see Spidey or Batman or Iron Man without their masks on.

I don't mind seeing them without their mask. I do think it is kind of funny when Spider-Man, who in the movies clearly is wearing a one piece suit with no separation between the mask and neck can suddenly take his mask off.

Even funnier is when the mask is shown to be all fabric with no supports, but when he wears the mask you can't see his jaw move, so there is clearly something in their holding his face in shape!

We've been turning a blind eye to this for years since he's been taking off his mask as a separate piece since he first started in comics.

 

[davejames]

Yeah that's true. You never see any kind of mask line around his neck in the comics.

 

[Guy Gardener]

With Sam's first I felt complete rage, but with this'n I feel nothing.

What's worse?

 

[Pauln6]

I'm not surprised by that. Spider-Man 3 left a bad taste in many peoples mouths so a bit of franchise rebuilding is in order.

It's interestig that some people loathe Rami's original, which I thought was note perfect. I suspect that my feelings are because I stopped reading Spiderman in the 70s so Rami's vision tied into that era. Perhaps modern readers of the comics relate more to the less cheesy stories of the modern comics?

Ironically, if they had adopted the more sombre tone of ASM in S3, it would have worked far better.

If MJ had said - you're a jerk get lost instead of applying the reset button at the end, it would have left more fertile ground for S4, much as they did in the teaser scene in ASM. Likewise, if Venom's creation had been the finale of S4, it would have left people more hungry for a sequel to see the proper showdown that he deserved (maybe even involving Carnage too). I think this is what Rami wanted to do but the producers pressured him to capitalise on Venom right now.

MJ's departure would also have left the field open for Gwen to have a bigger role in S4, possibly leading to her ultimate fate in S5 at the hands of the Hobgoblin, perhaps making way for the Black Cat in S5 and/or S6.

Rumour is that Rami favoured the Vulture for S4 and the producers weren't happy with that. Vulture would be an odd choice but no more a second fiddle villain than Scarecrow was in Batman I suppose.

 

[DarKush]

^
I like a lot how you envisioned a continuation of the Raimi films. That feels pretty organic. I would've liked to see that, especially a Venom & Carnage duo.

 

[Captain Craig]

^^^^
It's even more natural a progression since the exact same main characters were already in place from the prior film. Sam did want Vulture and the Sony execs wanted him to turn the character into a sexy female character. Just one of their "creative differences" that lead to them parting ways.

TASM plot with Lizard still could've happened and imo been a better story. We wasted an hour on an inferior origin and swooning over Gwen. Details, again, already nailed down from Spider-man 3. So much more about Connors family, Oscorp, Lizard transformation etc could've been explored. Things this film omitted and/or didn't really get into very well.

 

[Warped9]

TASM plot with Lizard still could've happened and imo been a better story. We wasted an hour on an inferior origin and swooning over Gwen. Details, again, already nailed down from Spider-man 3. So much more about Connors family, Oscorp, Lizard transformation etc could've been explored. Things this film omitted and/or didn't really get into very well.

Agreed. If Someone in the main cast didn't want to continue then they could have been replaced. It's certainly happened before. What really matters is how the story is told.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Have you ever considered that Sam took a dive?

He made such an awful number 3 intentionally so that they'd stop asking him to make Spider-Man movies?

 

[Warped9]

Have you ever considered that Sam took a dive?

He made such an awful number 3 intentionally so that they'd stop asking him to make Spider-Man movies?

Could have happened I suppose. Or he did what he could with what was pushed on him and then walked away.

 

[Captain Craig]

Guy he was forced to use Venom when his prior script had already been approved. My memory gets a bit fuzzy but I think they were less than 3 months from production when that change was forced upon him. He had to do a rewrite and do the best he could because Sony wasn't going to alter the production date. To some degree I understand that people say "but Sam still wrote emo Peter and that sucked", yes it did but Raimi did what he could in the time he had. Pressure, stress who knows but I don't think he intentionally made it bad. It's just what came out with too many cooks. He knew his name was still on it so I have to believe he wanted it to be as good as possible.

Further, Sony asked Sam back, with Toby--that's where the whole Vultress debacle came about. They were planning a Spidey 4 and Sony started meddling again. Ergo, creative differences and here we are now.

Tobey Maguire is laughing all the way to the bank. According to the TimesOnline his agent has negotiated a massive payday for Spiderman 4 and 5 in the form of $50million plus profit sharing. Can you say Cha-Ching? You will recall that Sam Raimi and Tobey are both slated to make their return to Spidey and the reported plan is that they will be shot back to back.

They were months from what Sam indicates was a Feb '10 start date, announcements of Malkovich and Hathaway as a father/daughter Vulture team as late as Dec '09.
I also love this quote which is only further proof of SONY being lying bastards.

Movieline doesn't say much else except that The Lizard, the villain that Dr. Connors becomes, won't be in the movie because apparently the Sony execs "can't bring themselves to sign off on such an odd-looking enemy — instead, they'd rather hew closer to villains with a human face."

Saying a non human face as a baddie wouldn't be accepted is a bit WTF excuse that does not jive imo.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Have you ever considered that Sam took a dive?

He made such an awful number 3 intentionally so that they'd stop asking him to make Spider-Man movies?

I don't think so. First off, nobody in Hollywood intentionally harms their own career. Second, despite not being loved by fans, the movie was still a huge hit! If Raimi wanted the film to bomb, he certainly failed.

I think he simply thought he could make a movie that successfully juggled three villain plots with dance numbers and actors demanding musical numbers and other goofy shit. In other words, Raimi isn't a movie God. He's an above average film maker who struck gold with the first Spider-Man, but like many film makers couldn't make lightning strike twice.

What I feel he should have done is, when the studio demanded Venom be put in the film is show some artistic integrity and backbone and said NO. What were they going to do? Fire him?

Either that, or make Spider-Man 3 a Venom story and hold Sandman until a fourth film. I think he fell in the same trap nearly every superhero franchise goes into when they feel that sequels need to be bigger and include more and more action and plots when people just want a good movie with a good story.

 

[Dream]

Further, Sony asked Sam back, with Toby--that's where the whole Vultress debacle came about. They were planning a Spidey 4 and Sony started meddling again. Ergo, creative differences and here we are now.

Tobey Maguire is laughing all the way to the bank. According to the TimesOnline his agent has negotiated a massive payday for Spiderman 4 and 5 in the form of $50million plus profit sharing. Can you say Cha-Ching? You will recall that Sam Raimi and Tobey are both slated to make their return to Spidey and the reported plan is that they will be shot back to back.

Sony should have done a better job negotiating with the actors so the Spiderman budgets wouldn't get so huge. Still you can't blame Tobey for trying to make as much money as possible.

If rumors are true Garfield was paid 500,000 for Amazing Spider Man, will be paid one million for ASM2 and two million for ASM3. Sony has learned how to cheap out with their actors.

Still doesn't explain how the budget for ASM ended up massive at 230 million even with an entirely new cast for the reboot. ASM cost more to make than The Avengers!

 

[Captain Craig]

True.
I don't see the money on screen for TASM.
Avengers had to cgi the alien designs onto the actors in mocap suits, not to mention the flying armored dragon creatures. Where is that money on screen for TASM. Even if Hulk=Lizard for cgi money is the same Avengers has a lot more going on for the money.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Sony should have done a better job negotiating with the actors so the Spiderman budgets wouldn't get so huge. Still you can't blame Tobey for trying to make as much money as possible.

I don't blame him for wanting as much pay as he can get. I do blame Raimi for not standing up to the studio and the actors. After all, the musical numbers, and I am willing to bet much of the dancing was their ideas. They should have made it clear that they aren't the stars of these films - Spider-Man is the star, and they can be replaced.

Still doesn't explain how the budget ASM stil ended up being so big at 230 million even with an entirely new cast for the reboot. ASM cost more to make than The Avengers!

No kidding! Just watching the trailer, the movie looks cheap!
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mktyxZiGB4M[/yt]

 

[davejames]

Yeah I don't understand that number at all. There were only a handful of action scenes in the movie.

And the CG for the Lizard didn't exactly look state of the art.