The age of the antihero
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As opposed to Sisko calmly and rationally punching a heavy bag and then heading out against orders and deploying a biological weapon when taunted by his former security chief?
Or indeed any of the other times Sisko had a shouting match in response to bad news (there's a whole video on YouTube of these moments).
Lorca actually pleaded with Cornwell when she told him her decision. The 'losing his shit' thing was what triggered her decision, it didn't follow it. It was linked to his PTSD from what happened to his crew that he doesn't care about.
Oh he pleaded all right and that is exactly him losing it. That was his emotions breaking down. Very revealing to see his priorities were about not losing his captaincy. Then he rather decided to ... follow the rules and leave Cornwell to the wolves. Do you think this man should be Captain?
Killing someone who is in the process of killing someone else is justifiable. That's what was going on, from Burnham's perspective.
1. Which Starfleet captains have we followed so far who would be just fine with being essentially medically retired from the Captain's chair against their will? Kirk? Sisko? Archer?
2. The whole point is that you can read that either way. He is either taking her advice and not rushing into a clear trap with Starfleet's biggest asset, which is actually the right thing to do from several ethical perspectives, or he is not rescuing her for his own ends, or a mixture of both. This isn't a show that presents the answers with a "You see, kids..." bit before the credits.
I know it was just a snapshot and it may be an example not familiar with some here but I liken Lorca to Ransom (Voyager) of the USS Equinox. The vessel was even a science one. Though Ransom and what was left of his crew had suffered lonely and dangerous conditions neither Discovery or Voyager could equate to. They sold their souls and as Captain, Ransom clung on out of necessity until some semblance of his conscience could fight no more. He didn't want to lose being Captain and look wants ends he went to? How it challenged him and Janeway.
However Lorca has options. He did something with his psych tests, he is not operating with the wherewithal that those tests apparently indicated. That alone should be a reason to rest him for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if he set the course for where they are now as a means to run from being checked over.
He wanted to survive. Not remotely the same circumstances as Lorca. Ransom made unethical decisions out of a sense of 'end justifies the means' to get his crew home and also didn't have Voyager's writers giving him free torpedoes, shuttles and repairs along the way. It is hard to imagine Captain Ransom ordering his ship into the path of enemy fire, or turning around to save a defenceless planet.
In fact, Discovery ended up with a similar decision to the Equinox, in regards to using a living being as a means of propulsion to its detriment. Equinox decided to press on. Discovery did not.
Um...I said Lorca had options Ransom did not, and actually they also include Discovery's writers giving the protagonists free get out of jail cards. Or is it different when Discovery does it?
Ransom had to do much of what he did and chose to do much, just to as you say to actually survive. I agree. Lorca does not have to be Captain to survive. There are other captains and resources. He cheated on his pysch tests. He should not be Captain but his ego comes first.
DISCO's writers haven't given any character a "free get out of jail card," as we've been over many times now. Do you want to discuss the show, or just some straw man version of it?
I see. So we're just going to keep repeatedly wiping out what's actually in the show, and reverting to your own version of events.
And to your contention, no. That's not how "free get out of jail cards" work. Burnham doesn't have one.
And to your contention, no. That's not how "free get out of jail cards" work. Burnham doesn't have one.
You understand that the writers put Burnham in prison in the first place, right?
It's not worth it. Burnham isn't in jail and therefore she has gotten away with it. No real world examples or prior Trek's will excuse this gross oversight on the part of the writers. They failed and Discovery is a failure because of it.
It's the story. Unless I missed the part where she made it to the penal colony and served her sentence. The sentence handed down to her at the court martial. It's not the writers making an oversight. It was their intent all along. Give Burnham the reputation of a mutineer and the killer of the torchbearer but never have her off the canvass. That is pretty ... obvious.
No, it's not. It's operating in strict black and white point of view that sees no alternative but for her to be damned.
This is the quote that keeps coming up in my mind in regards to this topic:
Dr. Berelli: The place got to me. I wanted to get into the game, but I forgot how rough the game could be. Didn't you ever have that problem?
Hawkeye: Not to your degree.
Berelli: What's that you're leaning on, a bubblegum machine? [Hawkeye flinches] You have a great many gifts, Doctor. It's a pity you can't number compassion among them. I'm suffering from the three sure signs of age. Bit of a spread, grey hair, feet of clay. I wish you better luck on your third war.
The topic is as much about the writing as it is the result, that being in this case the development of flawed characters. Anti-heroes if you find that term applicable. To be able to write a hero that is interesting and holds that interest but has his or her flaws set against a background of hope, in my opinion is more difficult to achieve, than the anti-hero. It is however not what is reflective of how Discovery is being presented, and that is not to say it is not catering to its audience. It IS. That is the tone of our entertainment and the market for it. As for compassion, I don't feel it for Lorca at all. Burnham I do somewhat but man she is presented to us with so many props, so much backstory and opportunities to 'star'. Of course when it comes down to it, badder Lorca is more compelling, right?
(BTW I like watching M*A*S*H but I thought Hawkeye was compassionate).
But surely the stun setting would have had the same result, in that the treat would have been neutralised. But from memory Burnham changed it to the kill setting after Georgiou was defeated.
