The age of the antihero

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Refuge, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Satron

    Satron Commander Red Shirt

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    But he also knows from personal experience that assimilation is reversible.
     
  2. zar

    zar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^ He also knew that already in "I, Borg" but spent 90% of the episode wanting to kill them all. The idea is that Picard was suddenly cured after a quick chat with Hugh and therefore First Contact was out of character, but that's nonsense IMO.

    PICARD: I'm quite recovered from my experience, thank you.
    TROI: Sometimes even when a victim has dealt with his assault there are residual effects of the event that linger. You were treated violently by the Borg. Kidnapped, assaulted, mutilated.
    PICARD: Counsellor. Counsellor, I very much appreciate your concern for me, but I can assure you it is quite misplaced.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Myko

    Myko Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The writing isn't bad if they are not intended to be likable.
     
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  4. Satron

    Satron Commander Red Shirt

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    The writing is bad even then.
     
  5. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And we shouldn't forget that Picard came to regret his decision over Hugh when there turned out to be a major blowback resulting in massacres. Which leads me to this nice exchange that would have given Roddenberry a heart attack had he lived longer.

    RIKER: Sending Hugh back to the Borg was a very risky, a very dangerous choice, but it was the moral thing to do.
    PICARD: It may turn out that the moral thing to do was not the right thing to do.
     
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  6. XCV330

    XCV330 Captain Captain

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    The whole deal with Burnham killing Tkuvma being murder makes no sense to me anyway. It was combat with shots fired in anger. He'd just killed the only other Fed in the room and she was surrounded by overwhelming odds, and transporters are notoriously unreliable at key plot points. She might as well have started trench brooming the entire bridge with the phaser set to kill. She had no idea how long she'd be stuck there if the situation further deteriorated.
     
  7. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    Age of the antihero?

    In this instance, about 32.
     
  8. Satron

    Satron Commander Red Shirt

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    I think it is now firmly established that their plan was a big fail from the start.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There wasn't the time or the resources available to do so. Picard's assimilation was reversible, because the ship was (relatively) at peace, and wasn't half assimilated with Borg drones swarming all over the place.
     
  10. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    Most of humanity are none of the above.
     
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  11. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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  12. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    Lorca would make a great Admiral someday have you never watched the tv shows or movies..some of those dodgy Admirals were Captains.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Doesn't matter. It's a standard of behavior that makes no sense that one is vilified and the other immortalized.
    I don't want hero worship Lorca. I want consistency in who is heroic.
    Never heard of it.
     
  14. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    War broke out from the time the Klingons invaded Federation space.
     
  15. starsuperion

    starsuperion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wasn't star trek about an aspirational humanity, one who had grown from moral ambiguity and strife, whose sole purpose was the betterment of mankind's understanding? STD says nope. Human nature is still a mess hundreds of years and hundreds of planets and species later. Wow, now that's not a depressing dark and species self loathing production if I've ever seen one. Makes me want to be reincarnated as a Dolphin. The show is sick. I'd love some healthy optimism rather then a constant commentary on the plight of humanity.

    Most of humanity today is morally ambiguous, sure but Star Trek is supposed to be the future. A sure moral goal. A bright beacon of hope, that despite today's issues, our future can be like that. Traveling the stars with other species, an aspirational goal that lifts us up, outside of the everyday. STD puts the sad depressing everyday in place of the hopeful and declares itself relevant. Who cares! I wanted escapism and optimism. I get none from STD.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  16. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    When Kirk was in a war situation watch how he acted in Balance in Terror the Organians had to teach him a lesson
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While optimism was at the heart of TOS, it wasn't that humanity how obtained that perfection. It was the optimism that humanity made it through the tumult of the time. It wasn't without peril, or war or death. But, humanity survived anyway. Humanity worked together and built up despite the struggles of the past.

    Star Trek's optimism has to be able to endure difficulties of war and the darker tendencies of humanity's nature if that optimism is to survive.

    Or, as SF Debris put it "To shed oneself of mistakes, like bigotry, apathy or fear, is not our default nature and never will be. It is something that human beings must forever be on their guard against."
     
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  18. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

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    I think if you go back and watch, you will find that all the other shows say "nope" as well. They may aspire to that, but are never shown to have achieved it. In fact, they're shown over and over and over again to still be struggling with it. That's where the drama comes from!

    -MMoM:D

    P.S.

    From the TOS writers/directors' guide:

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  19. starsuperion

    starsuperion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hmmm.. And here I thought the drama was handling a situation as a crew, to do the right thing, and ignore those based impulses while solving issues. That's what I got from both TOS and TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT series
     
  20. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

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    Not ignore them, no. Overcome them after struggle in a given situation, often yes. And we've seen characters on DSC do that repeatedly.
     
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