Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Refuge, Dec 5, 2017.
But he also knows from personal experience that assimilation is reversible.
^ He also knew that already in "I, Borg" but spent 90% of the episode wanting to kill them all. The idea is that Picard was suddenly cured after a quick chat with Hugh and therefore First Contact was out of character, but that's nonsense IMO.
PICARD: I'm quite recovered from my experience, thank you.
TROI: Sometimes even when a victim has dealt with his assault there are residual effects of the event that linger. You were treated violently by the Borg. Kidnapped, assaulted, mutilated.
PICARD: Counsellor. Counsellor, I very much appreciate your concern for me, but I can assure you it is quite misplaced.
The writing isn't bad if they are not intended to be likable.
The writing is bad even then.
And we shouldn't forget that Picard came to regret his decision over Hugh when there turned out to be a major blowback resulting in massacres. Which leads me to this nice exchange that would have given Roddenberry a heart attack had he lived longer.
RIKER: Sending Hugh back to the Borg was a very risky, a very dangerous choice, but it was the moral thing to do.
PICARD: It may turn out that the moral thing to do was not the right thing to do.
The whole deal with Burnham killing Tkuvma being murder makes no sense to me anyway. It was combat with shots fired in anger. He'd just killed the only other Fed in the room and she was surrounded by overwhelming odds, and transporters are notoriously unreliable at key plot points. She might as well have started trench brooming the entire bridge with the phaser set to kill. She had no idea how long she'd be stuck there if the situation further deteriorated.
Age of the antihero?
In this instance, about 32.
I think it is now firmly established that their plan was a big fail from the start.
There wasn't the time or the resources available to do so. Picard's assimilation was reversible, because the ship was (relatively) at peace, and wasn't half assimilated with Borg drones swarming all over the place.
Most of humanity are none of the above.
Lorca would make a great Admiral someday have you never watched the tv shows or movies..some of those dodgy Admirals were Captains.
Doesn't matter. It's a standard of behavior that makes no sense that one is vilified and the other immortalized.
I don't want hero worship Lorca. I want consistency in who is heroic.
Never heard of it.
War broke out from the time the Klingons invaded Federation space.
Wasn't star trek about an aspirational humanity, one who had grown from moral ambiguity and strife, whose sole purpose was the betterment of mankind's understanding? STD says nope. Human nature is still a mess hundreds of years and hundreds of planets and species later. Wow, now that's not a depressing dark and species self loathing production if I've ever seen one. Makes me want to be reincarnated as a Dolphin. The show is sick. I'd love some healthy optimism rather then a constant commentary on the plight of humanity.
Most of humanity today is morally ambiguous, sure but Star Trek is supposed to be the future. A sure moral goal. A bright beacon of hope, that despite today's issues, our future can be like that. Traveling the stars with other species, an aspirational goal that lifts us up, outside of the everyday. STD puts the sad depressing everyday in place of the hopeful and declares itself relevant. Who cares! I wanted escapism and optimism. I get none from STD.
When Kirk was in a war situation watch how he acted in Balance in Terror the Organians had to teach him a lesson
While optimism was at the heart of TOS, it wasn't that humanity how obtained that perfection. It was the optimism that humanity made it through the tumult of the time. It wasn't without peril, or war or death. But, humanity survived anyway. Humanity worked together and built up despite the struggles of the past.
Star Trek's optimism has to be able to endure difficulties of war and the darker tendencies of humanity's nature if that optimism is to survive.
Or, as SF Debris put it "To shed oneself of mistakes, like bigotry, apathy or fear, is not our default nature and never will be. It is something that human beings must forever be on their guard against."
I think if you go back and watch, you will find that all the other shows say "nope" as well. They may aspire to that, but are never shown to have achieved it. In fact, they're shown over and over and over again to still be struggling with it. That's where the drama comes from!
From the TOS writers/directors' guide:
Hmmm.. And here I thought the drama was handling a situation as a crew, to do the right thing, and ignore those based impulses while solving issues. That's what I got from both TOS and TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT series
Not ignore them, no. Overcome them after struggle in a given situation, often yes. And we've seen characters on DSC do that repeatedly.
Separate names with a comma.