The absurdity of promoting Janeway to admiral

[F. King Daniel]

I think the whole "Janeway shouldn't be promoted above Picard" thing is stupid. Picard didn't want to be an admiral. He turned it down in the first season of TNG, and chatted with Kirk about how awesome being a captain is in "Generations". Should Janeway be bound by Picard's career goals and ambitions, now?

 

[kimc]

In order words the bipolar captain of the somewhat despised Voyager giving orders to Captain Picard is very off-putting.

Wow, you are a psychiatrist! Very interesting, if i was a doctor i would be a psychiatrist.. maybe..

What's even more impressive is he can diagnose fictional characters.

 

[Maria]

I think the whole "Janeway shouldn't be promoted above Picard" thing is stupid. Picard didn't want to be an admiral. He turned it down in the first season of TNG, and chatted with Kirk about how awesome being a captain is in "Generations". Should Janeway be bound by Picard's career goals and ambitions, now?

That's what i am saying... i don't know, maybe we have the need to argue with others for everything.. For some people it doen't matter for what they argue but the fact that they argue. Even if we accept that Janeway is less capable than Picard, why she has to wait untill he decide that it's his time to be admiral, something that may never happen?

 

[Kelthaz]

In order words the bipolar captain of the somewhat despised Voyager giving orders to Captain Picard is very off-putting.

Wow, you are a psychiatrist! Very interesting, if i was a doctor i would be a psychiatrist.. maybe..

What's even more impressive is he can diagnose fictional characters.

Hey, what can I say? I'm just that good.

 

[Maria]

Wow, you are a psychiatrist! Very interesting, if i was a doctor i would be a psychiatrist.. maybe..

What's even more impressive is he can diagnose fictional characters.

Hey, what can I say? I'm just that good.

I don't think so.. if she was bipolar she couldn't even pass the tests to join starfleet and definitely she wouldn't be captain.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In the future there's medication for such simple disorders.

Janeway however might decide that she can't pull off this mission doped up.

(Something similar happened to the legionary Starboy (legion of Super heroes, Justice Society Comics) a diagnosed schizophrenic when he spent far too long summering in the 21st century away from his 31st century pharmacist... Bones grew a kidney with a pill in Star Trek IV, Bashir guffawed about the treatment of the mentally ill indigents in DS9 past tense because they didn't have the cash to pay for health insurance... I might have another example?)

 

[Maria]

In the future there's medication for such simple disorders.

Janeway however might decide that she can't pull off this mission doped up.

(Something similar happened to the legionary Starboy (legion of Super heroes, Justice Society Comics) a diagnosed schizophrenic when he spent far too long summering in the 21st century away from his 31st century pharmacist... Bones grew a kidney with a pill in Star Trek IV, Bashir guffawed about the treatment of the mentally ill indigents in DS9 past tense because they didn't have the cash to pay for health insurance... I might have another example?)

I am sure that the EMH found a way to totally eliminate the disorder (if there was one)

 

[kimc]

Wow, you are a psychiatrist! Very interesting, if i was a doctor i would be a psychiatrist.. maybe..

What's even more impressive is he can diagnose fictional characters.

Hey, what can I say? I'm just that good.

Maybe you can be the TrekBBS version of Dr. Phil. You might get a little competition from Holdfast though...

 

[The Trekster]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

Am I the only one who took this as a jab at her gender and found it offensive?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

No it probably has to do with the writers being inconsistent when writing her character, Where one week she sees the Prime Directive in the typical 24th century way of a holy commandment not to be violated or bent to next week where it is an annoying obstacle to be ignored.

 

[The Trekster]

Can you name some examples of her inconsistencies? (I'm not trying being snarky, I'd really like to know where this is coming from)

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Can you name some examples of her inconsistencies? (I'm not trying being snarky, I'd really like to know where this is coming from)

Well there was the not giving up replicator technology to the Kazon becuase it violants the PD, but giving holographic technology to the Hirogen.

 

[The Trekster]

That was years later and, IMO, spending that much time in the delta quadrant is explanation enough for the change. Plus the Kazon were not much of a threat to Voyager The Hirogen on the other hand were a threat and were going to keep hunting them and other living things (and doing it well, btw) if they didn't give them an artificial prey.

Was that the right decision? Who knows, but human beings can contradict themselves, especially years later, without having bipolar disorder. And when you consider that being a starfleet captain is somewhat akin to being a politician.... I think you know where I'm going with this.

Using your logic, I could probably find examples as good as your why Picard, Kirk, Sisko et al have bipolar disorder.

 

[Maria]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

Am I the only one who took this as a jab at her gender and found it offensive?

As i said, we saw the promotion of 2 women. In both cases it was found unacceptable by some people... Troi shouldn't be full commander if Data isn't, Janeway shouldn't be admiral if Picard isn't. Maybe they don't realise it and it's their subconsious fear to loose the control of women which they had for all these centures... but for me it's not coinsidence... Nobody asked why McCoy (we never saw him in command) became admiral, the problem is Janeway.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

Am I the only one who took this as a jab at her gender and found it offensive?

As i said, we saw the promotion of 2 women. In both cases it was found unacceptable by some people... Troi shouldn't be full commander if Data isn't,

Wait are you sure people are annoyed about Troi getting promoted or the idiodic way it and really all promotions to full commander are apparently done in the 24th century, which was basucally screw whether you are experienced enough or did beyond the work needed to get it, we're only promoting you if you send somebody to their death. I mean they couldn't have promoted her for you know running the ship while Picard was stuck in the lift with those kids and Riker was stuck in the engineering section in the one episode.

 

[Maria]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

Am I the only one who took this as a jab at her gender and found it offensive?

As i said, we saw the promotion of 2 women. In both cases it was found unacceptable by some people... Troi shouldn't be full commander if Data isn't,

Wait are you sure people are annoyed about Troi getting promoted or the idiodic way it and really all promotions to full commander are apparently done in the 24th century, which was basucally screw whether you are experienced enough or did beyond the work needed to get it, we're only promoting you if you send somebody to their death. I mean they couldn't have promoted her for you know running the ship while Picard was stuck in the lift with those kids and Riker was stuck in the engineering section in the one episode.

I believe that Troi's character was generaly disliked. Obviously the way to promote somebody is the same for everyone. So if their problem was that the promotions were given by an idiotic way they wouldn't compare Troi with Data or LaForge. Their problem was that Troi had the promotion instead of someone else.

 

[zar]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

Am I the only one who took this as a jab at her gender and found it offensive?

As i said, we saw the promotion of 2 women. In both cases it was found unacceptable by some people... Troi shouldn't be full commander if Data isn't, Janeway shouldn't be admiral if Picard isn't. Maybe they don't realise it and it's their subconsious fear to loose the control of women which they had for all these centures... but for me it's not coinsidence... Nobody asked why McCoy (we never saw him in command) became admiral, the problem is Janeway.

So basically you're saying that since there are 2 examples of people not liking a promotion of a woman and one example of people not questioning the promotion of a man, there must be subconscious sexism.

I counter that with the opposite; 2 men and a woman: Many people weren't happy with the promotion of Wesley to noncorporeal entity, or Worf's takeover of Yar (a woman!)'s position; and nobody was bothered by Kira being promoted to colonel (not to mention taking over Ops whenever Sisko was gone).

 

[Maria]

Wow. What gives the impression that Janeway is bipolar? The fact that she has a vagina?

Am I the only one who took this as a jab at her gender and found it offensive?

As i said, we saw the promotion of 2 women. In both cases it was found unacceptable by some people... Troi shouldn't be full commander if Data isn't, Janeway shouldn't be admiral if Picard isn't. Maybe they don't realise it and it's their subconsious fear to loose the control of women which they had for all these centures... but for me it's not coinsidence... Nobody asked why McCoy (we never saw him in command) became admiral, the problem is Janeway.

So basically you're saying that since there are 2 examples of people not liking a promotion of a woman and one example of people not questioning the promotion of a man, there must be subconscious sexism.

I counter that with the opposite; 2 men and a woman: Many people weren't happy with the promotion of Wesley to noncorporeal entity, or Worf's takeover of Yar (a woman!)'s position; and nobody was bothered by Kira being promoted to colonel (not to mention taking over Ops whenever Sisko was gone).

I am talking about the only promoted women i have watched ( i know nothing about DS9, i haven't watch it yet). And generally even if star trek is about a future society a lot changed, without unequalities.. still there are very few women (TOS women where meant to be Kirk's girlfriends) and their role in society hasn't changed a lot, at least not in the rate the other changes occured. Just look the title! If the author didn't liked the promotion of Janeway he could write " why Janeway was promoted?" instead of using words like "absurdity". I don't know why these scifi characters would cause such hostile feelings except this of this subconsious matter.
On the other hand, maybe my third attempt to pass sociology affected me more than what i was expecting..

 

[Guy Gardener]

What about Rand?

She goes from a yeoman facilitated to relieve Kirks tension (Remember his "how am I supposed to operate when I have to ignore how beautiful she is" speech?) to transporter chief in the motion picture (Who he ignored, while his Vulcan XO was turning inside out. Apparently Kirk can operate with ease around women over 30.) to first officer of the excelsior in Voy Flashback if not The Undiscovered Country as well?

Which means that probably if nothing bad happened, that Rand was just as likely to take over the Excelsior when old man Sulu retired as Riker was when old man Picard retired.

Why is it that any time a man criticizes a woman, it's cited that "this" is only happening because she is a woman? Isn't it possible that not every lack of intense zealous praise for Kathryn Janeway is not born bloody and screaming from chauvinism?

In a fair world it has to be possible that at least one percent of the shit thrown at Kathryn has to have been flung by people with legitimate concerns of her value as a person and a Starfleet Captain paying no disrespect for how she pees sitting down?

Sometimes, after a long day I pee sitting down.

 

[zar]

I am talking about the only promoted women i have watched ( i know nothing about DS9, i haven't watch it yet). And generally even if star trek is about a future society a lot changed, without unequalities.. still there are very few women (TOS women where meant to be Kirk's girlfriends) and their role in society hasn't changed a lot, at least not in the rate the other changes occured. Just look the title! If the author didn't liked the promotion of Janeway he could write " why Janeway was promoted?" instead of using words like "absurdity". I don't know why these scifi characters would cause such hostile feelings except this of this subconsious matter.
On the other hand, maybe my third attempt to pass sociology affected me more than what i was expecting..

But DS9 wasn't the only one. TNG and VOY gave roles to women that to this day are dominated by men in the real world, doctor and engineer, and nobody seems to be fussing about that. Troi and Janeway are the exceptions to a rule. Janeway wasn't the only female captain seen in Star Trek; and she and Troi weren't the only females to be promoted.