The "A" Game

[Clan Akledor]

First of all, hello to everyone on the BBS. I'm brand new to this group, but I've been a Trekkie (yes, with an i-e, thank you very much) since I was old enough to say "Star Trek." I'm an avid fan, love the Andorians, hate the Akiraprise, and am "optimistically horrified" about ST:XI.

I hope that sums it all up in a nutshell for you.

Now that's out of the way, I have a gripe, which will lead to a question, which--in turn--I hope will lead to intelligent comment from the BBSers.

Here goes:

What's with the -A in starship registries? Or -B -C -D, etc.? Bear in mind, I know the real-world reasons; writers wanting to "connect" the various incarnations of the Starship Enterprise to fans throughout the series iterations.

But the gripe I have is when it's taken to the extreme (the Enterprise-J from ENT being a prime example that makes me roll my eyes in annoyance).

So let's talk application. If we were really dealing with real ships and real names, do we even need that sloppy suffix? Gosh, registries would sure look a lot neater (and be a pinch easier to fit into the 23rd-century equivalent of an Excel spreadsheet!).

But, alas, we're left with the -A. So, why would Starfleet decide to use this device, real-world? Do they forget which ship is which? Do they do it for tradition's sake? Or is there some other reason they just don't assign a brand new hull number to each ship build?

[Puts soap-box away]

Anyways, that's my question. What are your thoughts?

*c/a

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

They did it because they wanted to honor that particular ship. Just naming another ship "Enterprise" wouldn't be enough, since there have been dozens of Enterprises. They gave it the registry NCC-1701-A to emphasise that they were paying tribute to that particular Enterprise.

 

[Forbin]

And honestly, I can't imagine it would ever happen in real life. CVN-65 was name Enterprise in honor of CV-6. The name was enough.

There's always been a trend for naming military aircraft after older ones, but with a roman numeral - F-4 Phantom II, A-10 Thunderbolt II, F-35 Lightning II, C-17 Globemaster III (for god's sake!), but that's a "class name" as it were.

 

[Timo]

To be fair, it was a relatively logical thing for Starfleet to invent the NCC-1701-A registry. I mean, the whole purpose of that vessel was to be a replica of the original NCC-1701, a personal gift for superhero Kirk. If possible, the ship would have been an identical copy, registered NCC-1701. But you can't have that, not in an orderly bureaucracy like Starfleet - so the A was added to distinguish the two vessels.

(Practical issues also dictated that the replica was of the new, refit ship and not Kirk's original one, and that she also featured newest tech rather than the tech installed to the original in the early seventies. But that's life, and it's the gesture that counts when you attempt to reward the man who saved Earth something like thrice, the Federation about six times, and the entire universe at least once.)

As to why Starfleet would persist with NCC-1701-B and so forth, well, that's a very good marketing gimmick. NCC-1701-B looks like she would have been the biggest ship ever built for Starfleet by that timepoint. How to sell the hyperexpensive project to the public? Why, insist that it is the next Enterprise, the same as before, only better! Earth and the Federation could always use one of those.

The interesting question is, does Starfleet do this with any ship other than the Enterprise, whose registry-suffixing spree would have had a valid start in the "let's reward Kirk" thing?

We have heard of just one other suffix registry on screen so far: NCC-1305-E for the Yamato. Perhaps there was actually precedent to giving Kirk the -A registry, since the original NCC-1305 appears to be an older vessel (lower number, more successors by the time of TNG). That wouldn't be entirely implausible, because we learn in ENT that Starfleet vessels have been doing cosmically significant things from the very start. The heroics of the original NCC-1305 could easily have been just as messianic as Kirk's, and deserving of a reward as large and expensive as an entire starship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

Personally I would assume they do it with other ships as well, although the FASA RPG used Roman numerals instead for successor names. They apparently operated under the guise of the letter system being unique to the Enterprise.

 

[SonicRanger]

. . . We have heard of just one other suffix registry on screen so far: NCC-1305-E for the Yamato. Perhaps there was actually precedent to giving Kirk the -A registry, since the original NCC-1305 appears to be an older vessel (lower number, more successors by the time of TNG). . .

Except that wasn't the real Yamato, just Nagilum's illusion. When we saw the real Yamato, its registry was NCC-71807.

 

[trash80]

The replacement Defiant had a different registry number i think though it was a renamed ship so probably kept the registry number assigned to it's original name.

 

[MarianLH]

. . . We have heard of just one other suffix registry on screen so far: NCC-1305-E for the Yamato. Perhaps there was actually precedent to giving Kirk the -A registry, since the original NCC-1305 appears to be an older vessel (lower number, more successors by the time of TNG). . .

Except that wasn't the real Yamato, just Nagilum's illusion. When we saw the real Yamato, its registry was NCC-71807.

It's not that simple. Riker identified the ship as Yamato based solely on the 1305-E registry.

Mke Okuda wanted the Enterprise registry to be unique. According to my first edition copy of the Star Trek Encyclopedia, when the "Where Silence Has Lease" script contained a reference to the NCC-1305-E registry, Mike Okuda drafted a memo to the producers requesting that the number be changed, but didn’t send it because the line was dropped from the script.

Unbeknownst to him, a later version of the script restored the reference, and by the time he found out about it (apparently when the episode aired), he had already done the FX work for "Contagion", showing the NCC-71807 registry.

The Encyclopedia states that the 1305-E registry is "incorrect" and "didn’t fit into the numbering scheme developed for starships in The Next Generation", but Mike Okuda wrote the Encyclopedia. The Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, one of the few TNG references not written by Okuda, attributes the discontinuity to a production oversight, and says nothing about one or the other being "right".

By all means, choose whichever registry you like better. Both are onscreen, so both are canon. Some people have even concocted explanations arguing that both are correct. But don't kid yourself--whatever you choose, it's a personal preference, not an authoratative answer that everyone has to agree with.


Marian

 

[Verteron]

We have heard of just one other suffix registry on screen so far: NCC-1305-E for the Yamato. Perhaps there was actually precedent to giving Kirk the -A registry, since the original NCC-1305 appears to be an older vessel (lower number, more successors by the time of TNG). That wouldn't be entirely implausible, because we learn in ENT that Starfleet vessels have been doing cosmically significant things from the very start. The heroics of the original NCC-1305 could easily have been just as messianic as Kirk's, and deserving of a reward as large and expensive as an entire starship.

Whilst it's likely the original NCC-1305 was commissioned before NCC-1701 due to its lower registry, it's quite possible it may have been destroyed or decommissioned after Kirk's original ship and his being gifted -A, hence the precedent may well have been established by Starfleet for him, and later followed for some other hero.

That said, I take your point about 1305-E having more successors, but it's only one more, and over a period of a hundred years this doesn't leave a lot of space for 5 ships, but it seems Starfleet does lose Enterprises rather often, so perhaps Yamatos too...

As for the registry discrepancy between 1305-E and 71807, there's no cannon explanation, obviously it's just a mistake. Perhaps we could come up with some silly explanation like between WSHL and later appearances like some damning, embarrassing piece of history coming to light about the Captain who caused the A/B/C/D/E-ness, perhaps he turned out to be genetically modified as a child or something

 

[Forbin]

Well, they were seeing an illusion of the ship when they said "1305-E," so I'm sayin' it's possible their minds were addled by Nagelum's mad-illusion-powers and they all thought that was the right number. Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[Verteron]

Well, they were seeing an illusion of the ship when they said "1305-E," so I'm sayin' it's possible their minds were addled by Nagelum's mad-illusion-powers and they all thought that was the right number. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Eminently plausible, Mr. Forbin!

 

[Forbin]

There's nothing a true Trekkie can't rationalize.

 

[ancient]

I lean towards the 1035-E number being correct, since it came first and was spoken aloud. Somehow I don't believe that the Enterprise is the only ship EVER to recieve lettered number honors. After all, the whole reason they named one of their 6 new Galaxy class ships "Yamato" in the first place was probably due to the heroics of the past Yamatoes.

The Relativity had a "-G" after it's name, and the there was a fake ship called Dauntless, NX-01-A, which didn't raise any eyebrows among the crew of VGR. I'd guess the letter is fairly common.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Somehow I don't believe that the Enterprise is the only ship EVER to recieve lettered number honors.

Yeah, I was never comfortable with the notion that the 1701 was the only ship to ever be honored in this way. While our crew(s) are among the best of the best, I always assumed that there other ships and crews just as competent having just as many adventures. Given that it would stand to reason that other ships have been so honored.

I would accept that the 1701 may have been the first to be honored in this way, since it was never seen prior to STIV (and if you accept the Star Fleet Technical Manual as canon [or "personal canon" or "personal continuity," or whatthefrackever] this is supported by the fact that renamed ships are honored with a "II" after the name and a new registry).

 

[Tigger]

I lean towards the 1035-E number being correct, since it came first and was spoken aloud.

Except that the LCARS displays for the Yamato all said NCC-71807 which should give that registry more weight since we have multiple on-screen "sources" for that registry vs. just one for 1305-E.

 

[Forbin]

Well, in my personal little Starfleet universe (the one in my head), the letter suffix is used more often. I've used it on a kitbash. When I made an Excelsior class dreadnought, I made it the Dominion-B.

 

[ancient]

Well, I'm convinced the "E" registry makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is all those old Mirandas with registry numbers like 53092(making one up there). Like the Saratoga at Wolf 359. I can accept that they may have stayed in service for a long time, but they shouldn't be building them brand new. They are refited sure, but that doesn't mean a new number from what we've seen.

Of course my opinion doesn't really affect anything unless I choose to do a Yamato model, which is a pretty remote possibility.

 

[Unicron]

I personally like Jackill's solution to that problem, as the Saratoga is actually the lead ship of an entirely separate class. Hence the registry number. That also makes it easier to assume that it's the original Miranda class ship first shown in TVH, with the registry being changed when the new class was built.

 

[Timo]

But if so, the new class would still be of the Miranda design, so what would this solve? They would still be building spanking new Mirandas (or another class of that basic design) in the early 24th century and giving them registries in the 31000 range.

Actually, I don't think that is too bad, considering that the Excelsior class is shown to remain in production between registries 2000 and 54000 (although with just a few examples in evidence at each extreme end - the bulk of production seems to have involved ships in the 14000 and 42000 ranges). The Miranda might well span 29000 registry numbers, too, perhaps remaining in intermittent production for four or five decades. Such prolonged production isn't completely unseen in real-world navies, either, at least not for smaller, mass-produced secondary types that don't have to stay at the cutting edge (say, minesweepers).

As for the "real" Yamato registry being shown on screen, that doesn't happen in "Where Silence Has Lease" where it would create a contradiction. The 71807 registry is only visible in the various log entry Okudagrams and screens in "Contagion" (and sometimes rather prominently, as Okuda apparently wanted to rub it in ). We're thus free to argue that something changed between the two episodes - or then that the registry seen in "Contagion" is not that of the Yamato. After all, save perhaps for Picard's initial diagnostics screen, the log files come from a ship crippled by software malfunctions. Perhaps one of those corrupted the ship's registry number?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MarianLH]

Perhaps one of those corrupted the ship's registry number?

Timo Saloniemi

Oooh, good one!


Marian