The 11th Doctor could have been dressed like Captain Jack...

[Bones2]

^
Eccleston otherworldly? In the same way that coming from the south I consider a Salford dog track otherworldly maybe.

And I think you could conceivably consider Davison a failure. It was after his first year that Doctor Who slipped out of the top 10 TV for any week, and it didn't return until the 1996 film. Whether it's down to people not being attached to him the way they were to Tom Baker or whether it's due to other issues is anyone's guess.

 

[Sci]

^
Eccleston otherworldly? In the same way that coming from the south I consider a Salford dog track otherworldly maybe.

It has to do with his attitude, his gaze, his mood. The man just managed to capture that sense of his being far older than he looks and of seeing things and thinking things a Human couldn't really understand perfectly. There was a mystery to his gaze that Tennant sometimes lacked. (For my money, Tennant never really captured that until he stared down at the title characters after blowing up their spaceship in "The Family of Blood.")

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Eccleston had something undefinaeable about him which could best be qualified as unworldly. I think it's to his credit as an actor that, in a single season, he made such a powerful impression.

Yeah, Tenant wasn't unworldy in the same way Eccleston was (except when he was doing his "The Oncoming Storm" Stare, them for my money, he was-but that was an exception to the general rule), but. Tennant caried it off by his personality as well as his acting talent.

And I myself am subjective about Davison. He was my Doctor, too, and I hated to see him go, no matter how wonderful a story Caves Androzani was. Failure? Never!

Damn, if they could have had more Five stories like that , I'd have loved to have seen more! I read somewhere that Davison actually wavered and considered another season briefly, if he could have had more stories like that one, and I agree.

For my money, Caves of Androzani had to be one of the top five Doctor Who stories of all time-it's just such a damned shame that Peter Davison's finest story was his last one, because he really, really shined in that one. We were really, really rooting for him and I think that's why it was so painful to see him "die" at the end.

End of Time was very good, but it didn't quite equal Holmes' script, though to be fair, RTD wasn't trying to slavishly mimic Holmes, just capture a similar tragic theme.

But the popular consensus, at least, is that he was good, but many compare him unfavorably to Baker, which I think is sad, since Five really grew on you, and I hope that will be the case with Eleven.

I think Eleven may indeed prove to be be unworldly in a more pre-Ten way, but maybe I'm swayed by his youth. He'd have to have the tremendous talent to pull it off, and of course the problem is, I've never seen him perform before, except for that brief vignette at the end of End of Time.

So I'll wait and see, but I suspect, at best, it will take a while for Matt Smith to overcome the comparisons and establish himself. I'll be hoping for him, but I suspect he'll have a bit of an uphill battle.

 

[Zinc Saucier]

Now, in fairness, it is a damn sight better than the pirate idea and, considering some of what we've seen Smith wear in public, I suppose we can be grateful for whatever bullet we dodged had he simply raided his own closet.

Actually, from the sounds of it that's pretty much what happened. Moffat said he thought the tweed jacket was one Smith owned himself.

I found this pretty nice excerpt from the article:

So the bow tie was something that Matt particularly wanted? Was the costume and the overall 'look' for Matt's Doctor ultimately his choice then?

"Well, it's a bizarre story the whole thing..." Steven begins. "We were so far down the road with a completely different look. Costumes had been made, fittings done, we were heading towards the first photocall - mere days before the first day of filming. We had a different look altogether, a bit more piratey, big long coats and all that stuff - and Matt hated it all, so we knew we were in trouble. He hated everything. On the last day - in the last half an hour of the last day we could make this decision - he asked if he could try this jacket. I think it was his, this old tweedy jacket with elbow patches. So he put that on, and he liked that, he liked his tweed jacket and his elbow patches. Then he said, 'Could I try braces?' So he put the braces on, and I'm thinking, 'Yeah, that's not bad.' It wasn't spectacular, it was just okay.

"And then he said, 'Can I have a bow tie? And I said, 'Absolutely no. Under no circumstances are we having a bow tie! It's retro, outdated, ridiculous, it's a pantomime idea of what Doctor Who is like. We are not having a bow tie!
But Piers said, 'Just let him try it with the bow tie.' So we stuck a bow tie on him and it just looked fantastic. Instantly! And you could tell that he, for the first time since the costume fitting started, was leaping around the room pretending his pen was a sonic screwdriver, and absolutely believing it! Beth [Willis, the third executive producer] had popped out for a while, so we got her back and I thought, well, 'Surely we've just gone mad, so let's see if Beth thinks this looks okay.' She came back in and she loved it. Girls sometimes just smack you round the head and say 'No, you can't wear that, it's ridiculous!' But she didn't - she loved it, too! And that's the reason I signed off on it that day. I mean, he's a clothes horse, Matt, he looks good in anything. But he just stood there in the other costumes chewing his lip and looking miserable. When he wore the bow tie and the braces and the tweedy jacket he was honestly jumping around the room with his pen going 'Fzzzt!' being Doctor Who. I still have the photographs on my iPhone. Here is the previous costume. Look at his face! Look how miserable he is."

Steven leans over to show DWM some pictures on his iPhone of Matt wearing a different costume. Matt does indeed look great - but not at all happy. We whiz through other photos before finally reaching the now familiar attire of the Eleventh Doctor.

"You just see the change in his mood from, frankly, being a bit miserable and convinced we were not going to get there... and suddenly he's happy! Can't take his eyes off himself. In love!"

We flick back to an earlier shot - to an outfit that looks a little like something Captain Jack Sparrow wears in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

"He's absolutely not feeling it there," Steven recalls. "He said to me, 'Other people would dress the Doctor like that. I don't think the Doctor would ever dress himself like that.' And he's right. Cos the Doctor doesn't think he's going on an adventure... He thinks he's a scientist and an explorer and a fun guy. Matt's costume is distinct; it's lovable; it's accessible to children, they all think he's funny. One of the odd things about Matt is that if you make him look cool, he looks insanely cool, and the Doctor shouldn't look too cool. You want kids to run up to him and take his hand."

I hope we eventually get to see those pictures of the original costume.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Me, too. I think the article nailed it. Matt Smith may look good in clothes, but the outfit itself just doesn't, well... work as a costume. The current outfit looks like an impression of what Doctor who costumes should be. If Moffat thought the original concept worked, then he should have stuck to his guns, no matter how unhappy Smith got. He could always have made changes if the outfit failed to catch on later in the season. Mind, it's only the first season, and there could well be changes in store to the costume.

As for Smith himself, he's not going to catch on as fast as Eccleston or Tennant-and given Tennant's popularity, we shouldn't expect him to. I suspect it will take a full season to show if he can pull it off.

Only time, if you''ll pardon the pun-will tell.

 

[DimesDan]

^
Eccleston otherworldly? In the same way that coming from the south I consider a Salford dog track otherworldly maybe.

It has to do with his attitude, his gaze, his mood. The man just managed to capture that sense of his being far older than he looks and of seeing things and thinking things a Human couldn't really understand perfectly. There was a mystery to his gaze that Tennant sometimes lacked. (For my money, Tennant never really captured that until he stared down at the title characters after blowing up their spaceship in "The Family of Blood.")

Yeah he comes across as Northern, that's all. It's one of those strange things that anyone not born in the North of England can't do. As for the unbolded section, it's your opinion, but you may be reading too much into it and to me, it feels like you're talking out of your arse.

 

[Sci]

Me, too. I think the article nailed it. Matt Smith may look good in clothes, but the outfit itself just doesn't, well... work as a costume. The current outfit looks like an impression of what Doctor who costumes should be.

Erm, no, the article quoted above says that about the original costume, and argues that the current one is the one that works as a costume for the Doctor rather than as someone else's impression of what Doctor costume should be.

If Moffat thought the original concept worked, then he should have stuck to his guns, no matter how unhappy Smith got.

Why? There's no reason not to look and see what an alternate costume looks like, and once the ensemble was complete, Moffat decided he liked it better.

As for Smith himself, he's not going to catch on as fast as Eccleston or Tennant

Says who?

The man could crash and burn, or he could catch fire and be just as popular, or more so, than Tennant. There's no way to know.

 

[Starkers]

^
Eccleston otherworldly? In the same way that coming from the south I consider a Salford dog track otherworldly maybe.

It has to do with his attitude, his gaze, his mood. The man just managed to capture that sense of his being far older than he looks and of seeing things and thinking things a Human couldn't really understand perfectly. There was a mystery to his gaze that Tennant sometimes lacked. (For my money, Tennant never really captured that until he stared down at the title characters after blowing up their spaceship in "The Family of Blood.")

Yeah he comes across as Northern, that's all. It's one of those strange things that anyone not born in the North of England can't do. As for the unbolded section, it's your opinion, but you may be reading too much into it and to me, it feels like you're talking out of your arse.

Have you seen The Others? Eccleston isn't in it much but he really seems to be existing on another plane

Spoiler: spoiler for The Others

which in fairness he is because he's a ghost

I'd seen him do that before he was cast so when he was cast I knew he'd be brilliant. He just has a way of looking off into the distance as if he's seeing stuff non of the rest of us ever could.

 

[Sci]

It has to do with his attitude, his gaze, his mood. The man just managed to capture that sense of his being far older than he looks and of seeing things and thinking things a Human couldn't really understand perfectly. There was a mystery to his gaze that Tennant sometimes lacked. (For my money, Tennant never really captured that until he stared down at the title characters after blowing up their spaceship in "The Family of Blood.")

Yeah he comes across as Northern, that's all.

Like that means anything to me? You're all equally English in my eyes.

It's one of those strange things that anyone not born in the North of England can't do. As for the unbolded section, it's your opinion, but you may be reading too much into it and to me, it feels like you're talking out of your arse.

And to me, it feels like you're watching DW with the intent of not engaging it on its own terms and disrespecting someone for being "Northern."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Most fans are delighted with just about all of "Doctor Who" (2005); really, they are. But mixed in with that are some insanely vocal ones who go on about how they hated it every single week. Which raises the question, 'Why are you fucking watching it then?' Many of those guys used to support my episodes, but they already think I'll fuck it up completely now. It makes no sense, especially when you look at what I was praised for by those vocal fans. They'd say, 'It will be great when Moffat takes over, because then there won't be so much romance, there won't be all that soapy stuff, there won't be all this comedy, and there won't be overuse of the sonic screwdriver'. But I do all those things, even more than Russell (Russell T. Davies) does! And I've got the record for gay jokes. I've got the gayest joke of all time in "Doctor Who" (2005) - I've got the 'beard' joke about the Master. I'm worse than he is for most of that!

I love this quote - which is why I have any hope at all.

 

[Samurai8472]

It's worth pointing out as well that, according to the DWM article, much of the look was Smith's idea. Moffat basically goes on about how, though not a fan, Smith has been devouring the DVDs since he got the part and phoned him up to rave about Tomb of the Cybermen. Moffat basically says he realised he was never going to get him to lose the bow-tie after that.

And I really hate this notion that Smith was hired to appeal to fangirls, I'm really hoping he rams a few people's prejudices down their throats (it will be suitibly ironic if everyone loves him and I end up hating him now )

It's worth reinterating from the first page

And it was Smith himself who ended up chosing his clothes because he hated what they were trying to put him in.

In fact Moffat hated the bow-tie (too retro, he said) and refused to let him wear it until new Producer Beth Willis stepped in and spoke up for it.

 

[Samurai8472]

Sorry for the bump but here's some of the article about the Moffat hating the bow tie.

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/43791084.html

"And then he said, 'Can I have a bow tie? And I said, 'Absolutely no. Under no circumstances are we having a bow tie! It's retro, outdated, ridiculous, it's a pantomime idea of what Doctor Who is like. We are not having a bow tie!' [LOL] But Piers said, 'Just let him try it with the bow tie.' So we stuck a bow tie on him and it just looked fantastic. Instantly! And you could tell that he, for the first time since the costume fitting started, was leaping around the room pretending his pen was a sonic screwdriver, and absolutely believing it! Beth [Willis, the third executive producer] had popped out for a while, so we got her back and I thought, well, 'Surely we've just gone mad, so let's see if Beth thinks this looks okay.' She came back in and she loved it. Girls sometimes just smack you round the head and say 'No, you can't wear that, it's ridiculous!' But she didn't - she loved it, too! And that's the reason I signed off on it that day. I mean, he's a clothes horse, Matt, he looks good in anything. But he just stood there in the other costumes chewing his lip and looking miserable. When he wore the bow tie and the braces and the tweedy jacket he was honestly jumping around the room with his pen going 'Fzzzt!' being Doctor Who. I still have the photographs on my iPhone. Here is the previous costume. Look at his face! Look how miserable he is."

Steven leans over to show DWM some pictures on his iPhone of Matt wearing a different costume. Matt does indeed look great - but not at all happy. We whiz through other photos before finally reaching the now familiar attire of the Eleventh Doctor.

"You just see the change in his mood from, frankly, being a bit miserable and convinced we were not going to get there... and suddenly he's happy! Can't take his eyes off himself. In love!"

The pirate outfit

We flick back to an earlier shot - to an outfit that look a little like something Captain Jack Sparrow wears in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

"He's absolutely not feeling it there," Steven recalls. "He said to me, 'Other people would dress the Doctor like that. I don't think the Doctor would ever dress himself like that.' And he's right. Cos the Doctor doesn't think he's going on an adventure... He thinks he's a scientist and an explorer and a fun guy. Matt's costume is distinct; it's lovable; it's accessible to children, they all think he's funny. One of the odd things about Matt is that if you make him look cool, he looks insanely cool, and the Doctor shouldn't look too cool. You want kids to run up to him and take his hand."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The man who once said this

Most fans are delighted with just about all of "Doctor Who" (2005); really, they are. But mixed in with that are some insanely vocal ones who go on about how they hated it every single week. Which raises the question, 'Why are you fucking watching it then?' Many of those guys used to support my episodes, but they already think I'll fuck it up completely now. It makes no sense, especially when you look at what I was praised for by those vocal fans. They'd say, 'It will be great when Moffat takes over, because then there won't be so much romance, there won't be all that soapy stuff, there won't be all this comedy, and there won't be overuse of the sonic screwdriver'. But I do all those things, even more than Russell (Russell T. Davies) does! And I've got the record for gay jokes. I've got the gayest joke of all time in "Doctor Who" (2005) - I've got the 'beard' joke about the Master. I'm worse than he is for most of that!

Yeah, this is one more reason that I like him so much.

The notion that either Moffat or particularly the BBC would be motivated to in any way repudidate what RTD did with Doctor Who is the sheerest sort of resentful fantasy on the part of the folks Moffat describes as the "insanely vocal ones who go on about how they hated it every single week." Of course they are doomed to disappointment as the new producers and the owners continue to refine and extend and further reinforce most everything that's already true of nuWho.

 

[Cutter John]

We he's certainly proved those fans wrong. He hasnt' changed DW at all since he took over.

Oh and thanks for those excerpts Samurai. Its nice that he's willing to admit when he's wrong.