Thats it. I dont consider Disc , SNW , or Picard cannon

[cooleddie74]

Yes. It IS all canon.

Next?*

*That is not an invitation

 

[ScottJ85]

Is it cannon? Really? Let's say you wrote some.amazing novel or movie series that is beloved. The fans have seen/read it and researched it and loved it so much that they could easily write or film a new series/book set in the universe of the book you wrote and do it perfectly

Roddenberry isn't alive to have an opinion, and his son seems to be totally on board with what Paramount / CBS are doing, rendering the rest of your rant moot.

 

[EnderAKH]

Is it cannon? Really? Let's say you wrote some.amazing novel or movie series that is beloved. The fans have seen/read it and researched it and loved it so much that they could easily write or film a new series/book set in the universe of the book you wrote and do it perfectly.

Let's say for 5 years, some really great, qualified writers and people continue your series/book either through sequels, or spin offs, or make it live action, and everyones happy.

Now imagine 10 years pass, and all the fans have loved your work and now there are talks that the same company who created the sequel/spin off that was beloved, is trying to create a new series/book based on your original.

Now let's say the writers working on the new project, as well as the showrunners or whatever, create something set in your universe, but it's extremely bad..imagine the same company you approved of because they were so good in the past, suddenly seemingly ruining your work, not understanding the Lore, Creating illogical stories, or plotholes, or killing off your characters everyone loved for no good reason let alone a logical one, and imagine they keep pumping out more media and continually making things worse, how would you feel?

Would you still think of their awful work Canon, even if they owned the rights to your work? Technically yes. But in your heart and mind, would you seriously care to see their awful work as canon to your original work? What if you were given the rights to continue work on your project again? Would you not immediately be excited to undo the damage they did, or just ignore it, or just claim it was some dream or alternate universe, and continue your project from where you originally left off, but this time do it good, and write it to make sense, and not have plotholes, etc? Wouldn't you just tell the fans that whatever the previous company did, wasn't really Canon and distance yourself from them?

Well this is how some of us feel about new trek. The people who came on to create it were really only interested in money and their stuoid streaming service. Without trek, why would anyone want paramount + anyway? Star trek is their main cash cow, and they just want money, they don't care nor do they understand Lore, how to write a great story, how to write a memorable and great character, or villain, etc. If they respected and understood trek, they wouldn't start trek by ruining the klingons, making a 23rd century ship look 30 times more advanced than it should be. They wouldn't listen to Patrick stewart when he said he wants to do a Picard show SOLO, and not wear a uniform. But they did, because they don't understand trek, and because even if they watched every episode. They're brains are so microscopic they'd STILL write pure trash and fk it up.

That's why new trek is not canon DESPITE what paramount CLAIMS

Hi, allow me to introduce you to Alan Moore. He hates everything DC has done with his works. Every. Single. Thing. Are they canon? Yes. Does Alan Moore think they're canon? My guess would be no, but that his opinion is immaterial. Do some other people hate what has happened with his works? Some, yes. Does their hatred make them not canon? Not in the least. Because they will still inform the works of DC moving forward, as will Discovery, SNW, Academy, and whatever else you have a knee jerk hatred of.

 

[DaveyNY]

If you still desire to hurt yourself..., I just want to let you know that I've had a lifetime of experience assisting folks with that endeavor.

Let me know, I can probably cure you of that affliction.

 

[Ovation]

Is it cannon? Really? Let's say you wrote some.amazing novel or movie series that is beloved. The fans have seen/read it and researched it and loved it so much that they could easily write or film a new series/book set in the universe of the book you wrote and do it perfectly.

Let's say for 5 years, some really great, qualified writers and people continue your series/book either through sequels, or spin offs, or make it live action, and everyones happy.

Now imagine 10 years pass, and all the fans have loved your work and now there are talks that the same company who created the sequel/spin off that was beloved, is trying to create a new series/book based on your original.

Now let's say the writers working on the new project, as well as the showrunners or whatever, create something set in your universe, but it's extremely bad..imagine the same company you approved of because they were so good in the past, suddenly seemingly ruining your work, not understanding the Lore, Creating illogical stories, or plotholes, or killing off your characters everyone loved for no good reason let alone a logical one, and imagine they keep pumping out more media and continually making things worse, how would you feel?

Would you still think of their awful work Canon, even if they owned the rights to your work? Technically yes. But in your heart and mind, would you seriously care to see their awful work as canon to your original work? What if you were given the rights to continue work on your project again? Would you not immediately be excited to undo the damage they did, or just ignore it, or just claim it was some dream or alternate universe, and continue your project from where you originally left off, but this time do it good, and write it to make sense, and not have plotholes, etc? Wouldn't you just tell the fans that whatever the previous company did, wasn't really Canon and distance yourself from them?

Well this is how some of us feel about new trek. The people who came on to create it were really only interested in money and their stuoid streaming service. Without trek, why would anyone want paramount + anyway? Star trek is their main cash cow, and they just want money, they don't care nor do they understand Lore, how to write a great story, how to write a memorable and great character, or villain, etc. If they respected and understood trek, they wouldn't start trek by ruining the klingons, making a 23rd century ship look 30 times more advanced than it should be. They wouldn't listen to Patrick stewart when he said he wants to do a Picard show SOLO, and not wear a uniform. But they did, because they don't understand trek, and because even if they watched every episode. They're brains are so microscopic they'd STILL write pure trash and fk it up.

That's why new trek is not canon DESPITE what paramount CLAIMS

The amount of oxygen that would have been wasted had this been spoken aloud staggers the imagination (in the ethical sense of waste). I guess that’s an accomplishment?

 

[Spike730]

Well, what is or is not canon isn't really up to us. But I feel the franchise has reached a point where the canon is so large that it doesn't feel coherent anymore. That's bound to happen with so many hours of TV, but I think certain decisions by current TPTB (all the retconns goind on in DIS and SNW) and neglecting to keep LD, PIC and PRO aligned have unnecessarily accelerated the process.

Back then I felt obliged to watch everything Star Trek even when I didn't particularly enjoy it. I don't do that anymore. If it gets too bad, I quit.

 

[Greg Cox]

IThe people who came on to create it were really only interested in money and their stuoid streaming service.

A suggestion: Maybe stop pretending you can read people's minds and know what they are really thinking and what their ulterior motives are. As in:

"People who claim to like the new shows are just trying to fit in."
"The people who make the new shows only care about money."
"Whoever wrote that is obviously a douchebag frat boy."
Etc.

Crazy idea: Maybe do people the courtesy of taking them at the word when they say they like something, or are trying to make the best Trek shows they can? Why not just accept that people have different tastes and STAR TREK means different things to different people?

 

[Tomalak]

Back then I felt obliged to watch everything Star Trek even when I didn't particularly enjoy it. I don't do that anymore. If it gets too bad, I quit.

Yep, that’s what I did with Enterprise.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Yep, that’s what I did with Enterprise.

It's what I do with anything...

If I don't find something to enjoy in the first 100 pages of a book, it goes.

If I'm not liking a TV show, it goes.

Life is too short and as it seems the alternative seems to have a public, humiliating, meltdown online, I feel confident my process is a positive one.

 

[Racefuel]

I

Well this is how some of us feel about new trek.


....



That's why new trek is not canon DESPITE what paramount CLAIMS

You're conflating your feelings with facts.

You feel frustration with the recent Star Trek series.

However it is official, it is "canon" and it doesn't really matter what you think as Star Trek is not your intellectual property and you do not hold the license on it.

Long and short, you have no power whatsoever. If you don't like it, you're free to move on.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

I consider DIS and PIC double canon. So there.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

If you don't like it, you're free to move on.

He'll be banned within a fortnight. Probably not that long. Let the poster in question ramble themselves into their own demise.

I feel sometimes with posters like this, it's we who should move on, but here we are on page 18.

And I'm just as guilty for contributing to the thread.

But these 18 pages (and growing) are exactly what the poster in question wants. Attention.

 

[Racefuel]

The OP has lasted a lot longer than I expected

 

[cooleddie74]

"I've never seen whinging like this."

 

[BillJ]

They do that all the time in DIS and PIC, and people ignore it.

When you put Space Hitler on a redemption arc, that is kinda where they lost me. I've actually started to watch Star Wars more than Trek lately.

 

[Amaris]

When you put Space Hitler on a redemption arc, that is kinda where they lost me. I've actually started to watch Star Wars more than Trek lately.

And it may not even be a redemption arc. We don't know how they'll portray her yet in this movie. It may end up being a "fascism isn't so bad if the person in charge is likable and means well" kind of message. I think that's why so many people are skittish of a section 31 anything, because the whole organization is seen as an unofficial official terrorist group.

 

[BillJ]

And it may not even be a redemption arc. We don't know how they'll portray her yet in this movie. It may end up being a "fascism isn't so bad if the person in charge is likable and means well" kind of message. I think that's why so many people are skittish of a section 31 anything, because the whole organization is seen as an unofficial official terrorist group.

My problem is with how they have ignored the atrocities that she committed. She just came over and all was good. Not sure it was a great message with the way Nazism is reemerging. I know Star Wars had Vader and Kylo Ren come back over, but death was near immediate for both of them, not lounging in the Republic, hanging out and going on adventures with Republic officers.

Just my pocketful of quatloos on the subject.

 

[Sci]

When you put Space Hitler on a redemption arc, that is kinda where they lost me. I've actually started to watch Star Wars more than Trek lately.

I mean, okay, but that's an entirely separate question from whether or not the characters are sufficiently formal in their adherence to Starfleet rank hierarchy.

 

[Racefuel]

Starfleet also openly embraced the Klingons after an actual war, unprovoked invasion of Cardassian space and such.

I really think its a stretch to say that Star Trek is handwaving away fascism and such just because they gave Mirror Georgiou a redemption arc.

 

[Sci]

Starfleet also openly embraced the Klingons after an actual war, unprovoked invasion of Cardassian space and such.

I really think its a stretch to say that Star Trek is handwaving away fascism and such just because they gave Mirror Georgiou a redemption arc.

I actually agree with @BillJ that it's a big ask of the audience to want them to forgive a genocidal fascist dictator.

I think "Terra Firma" did a lot to establish that Philipa was operating within a political system that would brutally murder her if she tried to reform it, but if I were writing the upcoming Section 31 movie, I would reveal that her claims to have engaged in genocide were actually all lies to make herself seem more intimidating to the Federates she found herself trapped by. That retcon would make the character a bit more palatable, I think.