That Bowl of Jumbalya
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I figure it's first come, first serve. If humans work to better themselves and the rest of humanity, who needs money? Joseph cooks for the pleasure and fulfillment of cooking tasty dishes for his customers, just as his customers do their jobs in order to serve their society and fulfill their own potential.
I suspect there's a rough barter system in place for limited items and services--if there's more demand than there is supply, it's up to the supplier to decide how he wants to prioritize his customers. Hence the occasional question and answer among 24th century Trek characters, "How did you get ____?" / "I know the supplier/I traded something/It's a secret."
I know nothing about actual economics, which is probably about what the Trek writers know.
Confident that I probably wouldn't screw up any more than they, I once wrote a fairly detailed hypothesis about 24th century Earth economics based on the idea that Earth has overcome the problem of supplying basic needs, and that "demand" is a matter of wants rather than needs. (Nobody will go hungry if Joseph runs out of table space; they just won't get the pleasure of eating his cooking instead of their own or their replicator's.)
With what we know of Joseph, I suspect he gives priority to regulars, and presumably to people who book in advance. Maybe he gives preference also to his food suppliers, if they're also individually run--fishers, farmers.
I suspect there's a rough barter system in place for limited items and services--if there's more demand than there is supply, it's up to the supplier to decide how he wants to prioritize his customers. Hence the occasional question and answer among 24th century Trek characters, "How did you get ____?" / "I know the supplier/I traded something/It's a secret."
I know nothing about actual economics, which is probably about what the Trek writers know.
Confident that I probably wouldn't screw up any more than they, I once wrote a fairly detailed hypothesis about 24th century Earth economics based on the idea that Earth has overcome the problem of supplying basic needs, and that "demand" is a matter of wants rather than needs. (Nobody will go hungry if Joseph runs out of table space; they just won't get the pleasure of eating his cooking instead of their own or their replicator's.)With what we know of Joseph, I suspect he gives priority to regulars, and presumably to people who book in advance. Maybe he gives preference also to his food suppliers, if they're also individually run--fishers, farmers.
mrs260 said:
I figure it's first come, first serve. If humans work to better themselves and the rest of humanity, who needs money? Joseph cooks for the pleasure and fulfillment of cooking tasty dishes for his customers, just as his customers do their jobs in order to serve their society and fulfill their own potential.
I suspect there's a rough barter system in place for limited items and services--if there's more demand than there is supply, it's up to the supplier to decide how he wants to prioritize his customers. Hence the occasional question and answer among 24th century Trek characters, "How did you get ____?" / "I know the supplier/I traded something/It's a secret."
I know nothing about actual economics, which is probably about what the Trek writers know.
With what we know of Joseph, I suspect he gives priority to regulars, and presumably to people who book in advance. Maybe he gives preference also to his food suppliers, if they're also individually run--fishers, farmers.
Appreciate it. Not buying it, but 'preciate it.
What's not to buy? In a society without material needs like Earth, Joseph Sisko is not running his business for profit but for the pleasure of his customers and himself. If he has busy days, he will prioritize like mrs260 explained. If it's slow, then he will give the customers that do come in even better meals and maybe take time to call his family.
Problem with that is that even the things you most love doing will pall if you do them every day to a routine.
Sure, cooking might take longer because of menu variations but it's still working to a routine that can be quite hectic.
Sure, cooking might take longer because of menu variations but it's still working to a routine that can be quite hectic.
Those two may be done automatically by that time, but who then maintains those systems? So the point stands.
It may be that there is simply a high turnover in jobs. Do one thing for 6 months and then move on to something else. I could see myself doing that for free and remaining interested.
Might be a difficulty with things that need training though.
It may be that there is simply a high turnover in jobs. Do one thing for 6 months and then move on to something else. I could see myself doing that for free and remaining interested.
Might be a difficulty with things that need training though.
Exactly.Photon said:
mrs260 said:
I figure it's first come, first serve. If humans work to better themselves and the rest of humanity, who needs money? Joseph cooks for the pleasure and fulfillment of cooking tasty dishes for his customers, just as his customers do their jobs in order to serve their society and fulfill their own potential.
I suspect there's a rough barter system in place for limited items and services--if there's more demand than there is supply, it's up to the supplier to decide how he wants to prioritize his customers. Hence the occasional question and answer among 24th century Trek characters, "How did you get ____?" / "I know the supplier/I traded something/It's a secret."
I know nothing about actual economics, which is probably about what the Trek writers know.
With what we know of Joseph, I suspect he gives priority to regulars, and presumably to people who book in advance. Maybe he gives preference also to his food suppliers, if they're also individually run--fishers, farmers.
Appreciate it. Not buying it, but 'preciate it.
Within the Federation you don't buy anything, people work for appreciation.
Get it now?
The whole self imporvement thing has a few flaws. Human society has a greater need for some sorts of people than others. Starfleet officers, doctors, researchers, scientists, and engineers all have use that is needed to society. What prevents someone like O'Brien from deciding he can't take fighting in the Dominion War, what he really wants to do is write erotic hololiterature? What prevents the man who is studying medicine in hopes of researching a cure for a horrible disease from dropping out and making ceramics? On a Starship we clearly see a lack of egalitarian resource distribution: The Captain's quarters are far larger than lower ranked officers.
I suspect that personal honor, pride and shame will still exist in the future, as would a sense of being a part of a great culture and a desire to contribute to it. If you're happy being a maker of beautiful pots, and that makes your life worthwhile, you should be free to pursue it. Just because a person won't starve, or freeze to death in the cold of winter doesn't mean self-gratification won't be at work in your life. If you can't find that thing that really satisfies you to the extent that you'll work for it, compete for positions others desire just as much may mean you'd work in waste extraction. And even that job or task still makes a contribution. If you think of that job in the terms of a contribution, it’s still worthy of respect.
Greed and avarice? That too will exist, but with the ability to meet the basic needs of a population along with an ability to channel those impulses, fulfill educational needs for advancement in a society, it would probably be kept to a minimum of the truly aberrant people.
Greed and avarice? That too will exist, but with the ability to meet the basic needs of a population along with an ability to channel those impulses, fulfill educational needs for advancement in a society, it would probably be kept to a minimum of the truly aberrant people.
I suspect that even in the trek universe, some form of capitalism still exists. I think the whole "we work to better ourselves" bit is really meant as a way of saying that humans no longer have to worry about necessities like food, clothing, and shelter.
When it comes to luxuries like eating at Joseph's, I'm sure there some sort of exchange going on for goods and services provided much like we have now. I think it's been made clear that paper money is obsolete in the Trek uiniverse on Earth, but I think there's still some exchange going on. Why else would there be a need for "Federation Credits."
I'm no economics expert, but from what I know about Star Trek, I always take the "utopian Earth" concept with a grain of salt. Sure, people aren't starving on the planet like they are now, and maybe homelessnes, war, and disease have been eliminated but society will still need some sort of modified economic system to survive other than socialism.
When it comes to luxuries like eating at Joseph's, I'm sure there some sort of exchange going on for goods and services provided much like we have now. I think it's been made clear that paper money is obsolete in the Trek uiniverse on Earth, but I think there's still some exchange going on. Why else would there be a need for "Federation Credits."
I'm no economics expert, but from what I know about Star Trek, I always take the "utopian Earth" concept with a grain of salt. Sure, people aren't starving on the planet like they are now, and maybe homelessnes, war, and disease have been eliminated but society will still need some sort of modified economic system to survive other than socialism.
mrs260 said:
I figure it's first come, first serve. If humans work to better themselves and the rest of humanity, who needs money? Joseph cooks for the pleasure and fulfillment of cooking tasty dishes for his customers, just as his customers do their jobs in order to serve their society and fulfill their own potential.
I suspect there's a rough barter system in place for limited items and services--if there's more demand than there is supply, it's up to the supplier to decide how he wants to prioritize his customers. Hence the occasional question and answer among 24th century Trek characters, "How did you get ____?" / "I know the supplier/I traded something/It's a secret."
I know nothing about actual economics, which is probably about what the Trek writers know.
I think it's as good a take on it as any. My problem with such a scenario (working simply because you enjoy it) is who enjoys cleaning bathrooms? Who likes picking up trash? Who works in civil waste extraction? (nobody can be ordered to do it, like in Starfleet)
I guess the answer to some of those is, they've been solved through technology. I always figured (like you did) that Joseph Sisko cooked food and ran a restaurant because he enjoyed it, and he got 'paid' by seeing people enjoy his food and his restaurant. As for his suppliers, I'm sure there are people who'd enjoy fishing, farming, etc. His waiters...not sure about that one.
For the Ferengi and other non-Federation beings and worlds as it's been explained within the shows. For example: DS9 is not a Federation station, so such things as Federation Credit applies in dealing with other alien species that do deal in currency.
If you check out Voy., they show Capt. Janeway making a deal with aliens and having to relearn the use of currency. If she had to relearn it, then nowhere on Federation Earth is it used.
