Terminator-221 "Adam Raised a Cain" - Dicuss/Grade

[zephramc]

Excellent episode, but why kill off a popular character like Derek? Cancel or not. Maybe a Derek from an altered Future will return?

I hope not. Derek from an altered future would be a "cop out" IMHO, much like B-4 from Star Trek: Nemesis. I think in order to grow into mankind's savior, John Connor needs to lose the people closest to him (Riley, Charlie, Derek, and at some point, Sarah).

In regard to killing Derek, I think the show's writers/producers are striving to make the show as "real" and dark as they can. This isn't a show where the good guys always win and the bad guys always lose. The good guy might win, but they'll go through hell and back, and not everybody's going to make it to the end (with the exception of John Connor).

 

[TheArsenal]

The good guy might win, but they'll go through hell and back, and not everybody's going to make it to the end (with the exception of John Connor).

"Everyone dies for me."


.

 

[nx1701g]

I'm pretty surprised by how many people were surprised by the death. It was implied earlier this season that Derek would die before the end of the season.

- Goodbye to all that: "We all die for you."
- The Good Wound: Kyle Reese morphs into Derek in Sarah's eyes.

 

[Brent]

Not surprised about the death per se, but more surprised in the quickness and meaningless'ness of it.

 

[Eric Cheung]

I'm pretty surprised by how many people were surprised by the death. It was implied earlier this season that Derek would die before the end of the season.

- Goodbye to all that: "We all die for you."
- The Good Wound: Kyle Reese morphs into Derek in Sarah's eyes.

I think I'd be less surprised if the following two things didn't happen:

- Charley dying, sort of leaving John with Derek as his sole male role-model
- The development of Derek's relationships with Sarah, John, and Jesse. It looked as if the writers were attempting to ship him with Sarah, and the stuff with Jesse was probably a way to complicate that, and teach Derek some serious lessons on who to trust.

Maybe that was their plan though, to make his death all the more painful for the loose threads it leaves.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Just wanted to add that the producers and Lena decided together that they wouldn't put Sarah and Derek together because, to the character, it'd be like she was involved with her brother.

 

[LutherSloan]

^ Just wanted to add that the producers and Lena decided together that they wouldn't put Sarah and Derek together because, to the character, it'd be like she was involved with her brother.

Yeah, that would have ruined almost everything.

 

[Saul]

Excellent episode, but why kill off a popular character like Derek? Cancel or not. Maybe a Derek from an altered Future will return?

In regard to killing Derek, I think the show's writers/producers are striving to make the show as "real" and dark as they can. This isn't a show where the good guys always win and the bad guys always lose. The good guy might win, but they'll go through hell and back, and not everybody's going to make it to the end (with the exception of John Connor).

I understand that and I don't have a problem with the way he went down either. But I think just as a TV show they are removing a popular character with fans and maybe some female fans in particular and I am just surprised they would do that this early in the show unless they are sure it's going to be cancelled.

I didn't get any implication or forshadowing he was going to die. With Jessie and Riley I did. Derek didn't even get a full episode to go out on.

 

[hyzmarca]

The question remains if BAG's casting in Body Politic occurred before or after the script for this episode was finalized. It might have been his decision rather than that of the writers or the producers.

Some Terminator fans have started a petition to help Donald find his trousers.

 

[Aragorn]

In the finale, John Henry and Cameron mate, and then it cuts to nine months later when their son -- John Cavil -- is born.

 

[Terrorfex]

Derek got Tasha'd! Unacceptable!

 

[Eric Cheung]

^ Just wanted to add that the producers and Lena decided together that they wouldn't put Sarah and Derek together because, to the character, it'd be like she was involved with her brother.

I'm not casting judgment on the decision one way or another, but it definitely seemed like they were testing the waters on that idea over the past few episodes. Maybe they considered it and then reconsidered it when they realized that it would be, as you said, like he's her brother (I think I was thinking that it seemed almost like Hamlet, but that Derek was a good guy or something).

 

[Checkmate]

I think it's funny how upset people are, even though this show did something that a lot of people wished happened more often: The threat that anyone can be killed off no matter how popular or important they are to the story.

If a show is willing to kill off characters like that, there is a real sense of danger for anyone else on the show. Right now the only one we know "has" to survive is John Connor, but we also know that the future can be altered so that's not even a guarantee.

 

[misskim86]

He's so coming back as a terminator

 

[Sephiroth]

actualy, I think that if we get a season 3, we will see Kyle Reese again somehow

 

[Sakrysta]

For what it's worth, I wasn't bothered by the nature of Kyle's death (or Tasha Yar's either, but that's a different forum & thread ). It just added to the cascade of out-of-control that was already going on.

 

[Forbin]

The only thing I'd like them to do when they do something like that, is give the character a dramatic moment. Instead of just bang, drop, move on... give us a freeze-frame at the moment of the shot to shock us, then show him fall in slo-mo, and linger on his body for a moment to let it sink in. A little moment of artistic filmmaking, for cryin out loud.

 

[Checkmate]

That just sounds incredibly cheesy to me. Much like it usually does when I see it on screen, too.

Quick, hard and brutal was perfect. He died at the hands of a machine for Christ's sake; it wasn't going to be a beautiful, artistic, or poetic death. He also didn't die pointlessly. He died fighting while helping to rescue a little girl. In no way whatsoever is that even remotely similar to Tasha Yar's genuinely pointless death.

 

[LutherSloan]

I agree it was a much better death than someone like Tasha, it was just really sudden.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But was it really as good as Denise Crosby's death on Family Guy last week?