Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Grading & Discussion

[Cyke101]

But, I agree with the above poster who said that the first Turtles movie is underrated when it comes to comic book adaptations, it's really quite strong in that regard in tone and certainly in look. There's a couple "lip syncing" issues in the movie but, damn, the animatronic heads and the costumes are just damn-near flawless. I mean they just look great. The only maybe minor quibble I have is how bendy and flexible their ventral shell is. But, damn, they look great.

Now that we're having this talk, I've started to realize what may be a major reason why the first movie is so superior to II and III: having a strong theme in the first place.

We're all aware of the theme of fathers in the first movie. EVERYONE in the movie has a role in that theme -- the Turtles/Splinter, April/dad's shop, Danny/April's boss, even Sam Rockwell verbally sparring with Casey Jones about Shredder as father. But what's really surprising to me was, by comparison, how much the next two movies just don't even try to have a central theme to guide the movie and the characters and tie everything together, so much so that they just become a set of action pieces connected by flimsy plot. Sure, there's lip service about being brothers, but the first movie constantly reinforces the theme without being so blatant about it.

I do find it humorous they tried to "tone down the violence" by having the turtles use their weapons less but in the big fight with the robbers at the end we see Donatello twirl a yo-you around his head to knock some of the robbers out. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is just as bad if not worse as him hitting them with a stick.

I hate to nitpick (wait, no I don't! I'm on a Star Trek message board) but it's Michelangelo who uses the yo-yo.

And Michelangelo even substitutes his 'chuks with sausages. Ugh.

Looks like the script was retooled after all.

And that, I'm at least glad about, for a multitude of reasons, as far as it concerns the Shredder.

 

[Trekker4747]

I agree, Cyke, the first movie does have in a strong sense of family (not just paternal relationships.) I just like with Casey's verbal sparring how he calls out Rockwell declaring the Foot a "family" is questionable given everything we've seen in the relationship between the Turtles, the Turtles and Splinter and even in how quickly the Turtles "adopt" Casey, April and even Danny into their ranks as part of the "family."

 

[Aldo]

Now that we're having this talk, I've started to realize what may be a major reason why the first movie is so superior to II and III: having a strong theme in the first place.

We're all aware of the theme of fathers in the first movie. EVERYONE in the movie has a role in that theme -- the Turtles/Splinter, April/dad's shop, Danny/April's boss, even Sam Rockwell verbally sparring with Casey Jones about Shredder as father. But what's really surprising to me was, by comparison, how much the next two movies just don't even try to have a central theme to guide the movie and the characters and tie everything together, so much so that they just become a set of action pieces connected by flimsy plot. Sure, there's lip service about being brothers, but the first movie constantly reinforces the theme without being so blatant about it.

I came to a similar conclusion a while ago, the first movie has a lot of heart, and is actually deeper than people give it credit for.

And Michelangelo even substitutes his 'chuks with sausages. Ugh.

I had totally forgotten that Michelangelo doesn't once use his weapons in the film. The only time they're visible is when Keno is over and April tries to pretend they are hers.

-------------

Well, I just got back from the movie. I suppose it's hard to be disappointed about a movie you didn't really expect much from in the first place, but I have some big issues with the movie:

-The Turtles themselves: For the most part they work, and their banter is fun. But when did Michaelangelo turn urban? I understand the "surfer dude" persona may not be relevant in this day and age, but Mikey felt off to me. The other Turtles I had no problems with. And I agree with the criticisms up thread: while they get some great character moments, they aren't really developed as characters. The movie only really pays lip service to them as individuals. The character designs look great though, any problems I had with them disappeared (and was it me, or were the noses on the Turtles reduced a bit? Because they sure looked different to me).

-Shredder: Up until we ran into Shredder I had forgotten that this movie was hastily rewritten. But it is pretty obvious that a lot of the Shredder stuff was added after the fan complaints about Fichtner being cast as Shredder. Although there is one line I loved and would have clapped were I in a theater with Turtles fans: right before Shredder goes to fight them he says "Tonight I dine on Turtle Soup." I loved that bit and had a huge grin on my face.

I did think the action sequences were spectacular, especially the race down the mountain, the sense of speed and urgency was apparent, especially in 3D. And despite the size of the Turtles, I did think the fight sequences were done well too. I read somewhere that Ernie Reyes Jr. was the fight choreographer and if that's true it's pretty cool. I also did like the Turtle van, especially since the horn was the classic Turtles theme.

Overall, I'm glad I saw it. But it's not going to be knocking any of the other films down a peg at all. Yes, even the second and third films which I really enjoy. I'd give it a C probably.

 

[Agent Richard07]

When I ranked the movies, I put this new one at #1 but I can easily see a lot of people putting the 1990 movie on top. This new one has the big budget feel and less kiddy camp, but the 1990 film had a little more heart.

I can't find it now, but upthread somebody made a reference to them whitewashing Shredder. One of the reviews I read earlier today actually said that Sachs, William Fichtner's character, is actually working for Shredder, he isn't Shredder himself. Looking the movie up on Wikipedia it says that Shredder is played by Tohoru Masamune.

There's lots of discussion on the issue in the posts above yours.

Sachs was Shredder's protégé when he was younger but has since become a powerful man in his own right. Their relationship is an odd one in the movie. Sachs is the main villain who's calling the shots while Shredder is both his master and the less equal partner in their scheme, almost serving at times like a henchman. If "Shredder" was indeed separated from Eric Sachs and made into a different character late in production, maybe they weren't able to make him a proper mastermind behind Sachs so they simply had them working together in this odd way.

A few fun facts about the movie...

• Peter Laird didn't think that Megan Fox was a good choice to play April O'Neil. Link
  
  
• There was talk of including Rocksteady, Bebop and Casey Jones in the movie but they were cut. Link They may appear in future instalments.

 

[Corran Horn]

The story of the 1990 movie didn't come from nothing - beyond the origin the whole 'turtle gets ambushed and beat-up', 'battle in the antique store' and 'escape to the farm' plotline was lifted from the comics that were reprinted in the Book IV graphic novel.

I don't think there'll be similar references to the old comics in the new movie.

 

[Aldo]

I would even go so far as to say I believed in the Turtles more as fully realized characters in the 1990 movie than this one. And those were animatronic puppet heads! Plus while the fight sequences might have been visually more appealing in this film, the fight sequences were much funner in the '90 film, especially the attack on April's apartment.

I did appreciate the fact that they made Shredder Asian, but it might have hurt the movie a bit. If Sach's became the Shredder that would have been interesting to see how they did that (I'm thinking it would have involved the Mutagen) but by divorcing him from that character, the movie is ultimately left with two characters that are not really fully developed at all.

 

[Agent Richard07]

^ Sachs is okay in terms of development, I think, but Shredder does feel more shoehorned in.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I would even go so far as to say I believed in the Turtles more as fully realized characters in the 1990 movie than this one. And those were animatronic puppet heads! Plus while the fight sequences might have been visually more appealing in this film, the fight sequences were much funner in the '90 film, especially the attack on April's apartment.

I did appreciate the fact that they made Shredder Asian, but it might have hurt the movie a bit. If Sach's became the Shredder that would have been interesting to see how they did that (I'm thinking it would have involved the Mutagen) but by divorcing him from that character, the movie is ultimately left with two characters that are not really fully developed at all.

Well the 1990 film was made for kids I think and this had a PG-13 rating (I was surprised), and that's why I don't think they weren't as funny. I gave this movie an A here, and for good reason. Yes, the film had its drawbacks, and problems (the musical score for one), but overall it was fun, the turtles I thought were funny, and it was just cool to see them on the big screen. I saw the 2007 CGI movie, but I never saw the earlier ones (I wasn't a fan of them back then). I liked how they made Splinter, and Megan did okay as April. Not the greatest, but okay. They could of done a bit better with Whoopi GOldberg, but over all I think the film was alright. Kept me intrigued.

 

[Aldo]

^^It's not really fair to make assumptions on movies you've never seen. If I'm reading you right, if not feel free to correct me. But the original 1990 film has a lot more heart (a much better story) and is just an overall better film in general.

^ Sachs is okay in terms of development, I think, but Shredder does feel more shoehorned in.

Perhaps, but he would have been a more fully realized character if he remained as the Shredder as well. At least he would have felt like a really threatening villain rather than the lackey he comes off as in the movie now.

 

[darkshadow0001]

^^It's not really fair to make assumptions on movies you've never seen. If I'm reading you right, if not feel free to correct me. But the original 1990 film has a lot more heart (a much better story) and is just an overall better film in general.

^ Sachs is okay in terms of development, I think, but Shredder does feel more shoehorned in.

Perhaps, but he would have been a more fully realized character if he remained as the Shredder as well. At least he would have felt like a really threatening villain rather than the lackey he comes off as in the movie now.

I'm sorry, I meant I never saw the originals in the theatre. Of course I've seen them plenty of time on DVD/VHS...

 

[Romulan_spy]

Just saw the movie. Overall, it was enjoyable. There were definitely some fun and entertaining moments. The CGI is of course excellent. The action sequences and the fight scenes are quite excellent.

The plot is pretty standard fare. I can sum up entire movie in a few lines: April discovers Turtles but no one believes her. Turtles make mistakes and get captured, seemingly defeated. Turtles escape and must race back to stop Sacks and Shredder's evil master plan that will kill scores of innocents. Turtles and Shredder have final big climactic battle. At first, battle does not go well, but then Turtles learn the value of team work and save the day. The End.

But the movie also suffers at times by committing some standard martial arts clichés and "movie sins":
- henchmen attacking one at a time
- villain captures heroes except one who he just assumes is dead
- evil master and good master ignore more pressing matters in order to have one on one death match.
- villain tells our captured heroes his evil master plan and then just leaves and assumes our heroes will die
- villain has some elaborate contraption on a timer to release his weapon giving good guys time to disarm it just in the nick of time.
-villain bragging that he killed parent/loved one of one of our protagonists.
- crazy physics
- master has words of wisdom on his death/sick bed for our heroes.
- Heroes learn meaning of believing in each other and working together.

I also wonder how could the Turtles thank April for keeping their secret at the very end of the movie when during the final climactic battle, thousands of New Yorkers saw the turtles battle Shredder. They see Shredder fall to the ground and they see the turtles on the metal strut tower come crashing down. How could the Turtles possibly still be a secret?

 

[Trekker4747]

Just got back, overall not really as bad as I was expecting or as some are saying, I'd probably land on a Flat-B or maybe a B- in grading.

The movie certainly has problems, I don't think the Turtles being so huge really works because it seems to require so much more to be amped up to compensate, like Shredder needing to be huge and over-compensating with tons of blades on his armor.

I loved Vernon being a character, wish they had Irma in there too.

The characterization of the Turtles really did feel spot-on but I don't think their overall look and design worked for me and there were some scenes in this movie that "didn't look real" most notably scenes with just the Turtles/Splinter in it (like the flash-back scene, the disciplining scene with the pizza box.) When the turtles and splinter were interacting with real-world elements it looked good but on their own this almost felt like a CGI cartoon. A really good-looking one, sure, but still not like a live-action movie.

The plot is very, very pedestrian and standard. It basically The Amazing Spider Man almost note-for-note during the climatic battle at the end. I also didn't much like the Foot being this para-military group rather than a group of elite ninjas.

And no Hamato Yoshi?!

It was actually pretty fun. Some of the action was bit over-done and quick paced. There's a lot you have to accept in action movies, sure, but there's so many times during the fight/slide down the snow mountain (apparently not too far outside of New York City) where April and Vernon should have died or at least suffered some severe broken bones. Again, a lot you have to accept and allow for when it comes to action movies and how injures effect people but that hill-slide was a bit much when it comes to the human characters.

The movie felt like a good length but also sometimes a bit too faced paced and Bay's influences are certainly all over this thing but not quite as deeply as I feared.

And did we need a fart joke in this?! Did Michelangelo need to be so pervy towards April? I mean, how would that even work?! Sure, in the cartoon Mikey was always a bit flirty with April but sort of more in a casual flirtatious way, in this one I think he crosses some boundaries.

The backstory isn't too bad (and actually not too far removed from the present comic story lines in terms of the origins of the turtles themselves and their mutations; their personalities and *true* origins being a bit deeper than this movie did.)

But all and all I enjoyed it, not as bas as I feared, and not quite as bad as some are saying. Certainly not a *good* movie and it certainly could have been better done and maybe more coherent in terms of the story and everything that happens.

But, as a turtle fan. I enjoyed it.

The 1990 movie, though, I think is still better because it seemed to have more heart in it and a better look for the turtles, better choreography for the fight scenes and such.

But, still. Decent enough flick, beat my expectations and I don't think too many Turtle fans will be greatly disappointed.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

Perhaps the best I can say is I left with my childhood intact and didnt feel like Bay raped me. I actually liked the movie and thought they captured the turtles really well. They could have done more with Leonardo and Splinter, but overall it was nice and the kids liked it as well.

They asked when the next one comes out, so if that's any indication, they were excited.

If I had to pick on something it would be the design of the turtles themselves. I'm more of a fan of the 1990 design and the back story for splinters ninja skills is dumb.

 

[Corran Horn]

what was the splinter backstory in this movie? It changes throughout the previous comics/TV shows/movies. Sometimes he's Hamato Yoshi's rat - sometimes he IS a mutated Hamato Yoshi.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

what was the splinter backstory in this movie? It changes throughout the previous comics/TV shows/movies. Sometimes he's Hamato Yoshi's rat - sometimes he IS a mutated Hamato Yoshi.

He is a test lab subject exposed to the mutagen. He is disinterested in 'ninja' and only does it to get his kids something to do. So he teaches himself to be a ninja master first and then teaches the turtles.

Apparently Iggy Igzalia does that to you.

And I know it may not be a commercial success, but I want to see the DARK story of the turtles like the original comics. Not so kid friendly at all.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I saw a documentary last night called Turtle Power: The Definitive History of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It's pretty good. Check it out. It tells the personal story of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird from the time they created the turtles until now in 2014. It also covers the toy line, the making of the 80s cartoon, the making of the 1990 movie and the cultural impact. It has lots of interviews from Eastman and Laird themselves, to the voice cast of the cartoon, to Judith Hoag and several others involved in the various incarnations of the Turtles. They even show a few new action figures that I never knew existed. The one I liked the most was the mutant moose dressed as a mountie. The documentary is available on Netflix.

...the back story for splinters ninja skills is dumb.

I thought it was more plausible than a non-mutant rat learning those skills by observing a human from its cage.

More nitpicks…

Spolier Alert!

- What was Sachs going to do about his plan if he hadn't gotten the turtles' blood?

- They missed a "kowabunga!" moment when they were on the slopes. Sure it would have been corny but I wouldn't have minded.

- The slope sequence felt like it ran too long. Is there a trope for when you should run out of road/runway or whatever, yet they're as long as they need to be to serve an action sequence that just keeps going.? They did this in Furious 6 as well when they had a sequence in and around a plane that was going full speed down the runway for several minutes. Someone calculated the runway to be 18 km long or something.

- Hey Raph, your shell may be bullet-proof but your face isn't.

- Having April be the one who helped raise the turtles felt a little too "small universe".

- Did April get her job back?

 

[ThunderAeroI]

I saw a documentary last night called Turtle Power: The Definitive History of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It's pretty good. Check it out. It tells the personal story of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird from the time they created the turtles until now in 2014. It also covers the toy line, the making of the 80s cartoon, the making of the 1990 movie and the cultural impact. It has lots of interviews from Eastman and Laird themselves, to the voice cast of the cartoon, to Judith Hoag and several others involved in the various incarnations of the Turtles. They even show a few new action figures that I never knew existed. The one I liked the most was the mutant moose dressed as a mountie. The documentary is available on Netflix.

...the back story for splinters ninja skills is dumb.

I thought it was more plausible than a non-mutant rat learning those skills by observing a human from its cage.

More nitpicks…

Spolier Alert!

- What was Sachs going to do about his plan if he hadn't gotten the turtles' blood?

- They missed a "kowabunga!" moment when they were on the slopes. Sure it would have been corny but I wouldn't have minded.

- The slope sequence felt like it ran too long. Is there a trope for when you should run out of road/runway or whatever, yet they're as long as they need to be to serve an action sequence that just keeps going.? They did this in Furious 6 as well when they had a sequence in and around a plane that was going full speed down the runway for several minutes. Someone calculated the runway to be 18 km long or something.

- Hey Raph, your shell may be bullet-proof but your face isn't.

- Having April be the one who helped raise the turtles felt a little too "small universe".

- Did April get her job back?

Sacs, didn't have the plan. It was on indefinite hold. I'm just surprised that after all these years he still had everything setup.

I thought Mike did the Kowabunga on the slope, maybe I imagined it because it was so obvious. Which bleeds into the next comment.

The entire movie is a paint by number, pull trope-a-thon. As soon as I noticed Sacs and Shredder I was like, yup... I see where this is going and every beat got hit along the way. Not that it wasn't fun.

I would think that she would get her job back, why wouldn't she.

Her helping them I suppose is just another trope in action.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I would think that she would get her job back, why wouldn't she.

I don't remember seeing anything to indicate that she got it back. Unless I missed something, they just left that hanging.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

I would think that she would get her job back, why wouldn't she.

I don't remember seeing anything to indicate that she got it back. Unless I missed something, they just left that hanging.

They probably didn't say anything.

 

[DWF]

Well I thought the action scenes were all well done the Splinter VS Shredder fight, the mountain chase and the ending were all well done. Although it seemed lke they barrowed the ending the first Amazing Spider-Man movie. The turtles all their own personalities to me and they certainly acted like a family.