Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Grading & Discussion

[Cyke101]

The second one is okay once you get passed how badly they castrated the franchise. The problem was it caught up in the rest of the ninja fad movies 3 Ninjas, Surf Ninjas, etc. and the action was totally comical.

Which is weird because wasn't that wave of kiddie ninja movies made *because* of the Turtles? It's as if the original got jealous of the copy and tried to copy the copy, but that's mostly studio exec thinking, I believe.

I mean, there were ninja movies before the Turtles, but they were typically bloody affairs. Then ninjas became family friendly like pirates. "Remember that time when the Turtles crushed a foot soldier with their shells? Let's have 70% more of that, and bring the weapons down to mostly cosmetic."

 

[CorporalClegg]

Which is weird because wasn't that wave of kiddie ninja movies made *because* of the Turtles? It's as if the original got jealous of the copy and tried to copy the copy, but that's mostly studio exec thinking, I believe.

Basically, yeah. There was that phase in the early nineties were everything was "Ninja! Ninja! Ninja!"

I'm reminded of that scene where they're walking down the street in the pilot and all the shops are named "Ninja."

 

[Aldo]

I have a Starlog magazine with an article about Turtles II that interviews the writer (he also wrote the first film).

He said that there was studio pressure to reduce the violence, and also lighten the movie up a bit. This second part was more due to the fact that they discovered the Turtle costumes photographed just fine in the daylight so they gave them more daylight scenes.

Personally I really enjoy the second film. True it can't touch the first film, but I think the costume designs are much better, and while the Turtles barely use their weapons, as a kid I always found that cool because I felt they were such good fighters that they didn't even need to rely on their weapons. And you know what? I love the whole sequence with Vanilla Ice and 'Ninja Rap'

 

[Cyke101]

^ Yeah, I was a bit confused when Cyke said "the fourth movie". I don't remember everything about it but I enjoyed it well enough.

Remember that this is the only movie where the Turtles fight side-by-side with both Splinter and Patrick Stewart, with an assist by Casey and April. Yepyep.

"HahaHA! I still got it!" -- Splinter

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the turtles not using their weapons very little never bothered me much. But it DID bother me when Michelangelo in the cartoon series had his "weapon" go from nunchucks to grappling hook. (Because throwing a multi-pronged hook attached to a yards-long wire is "safer" than a twirling stick?!?) Which I believe was done because many kids were taking to Michelangelo and he had one of the two weapons easily made/used at home and also due to nunchucks being an illegal weapon in the U.K. (where "Hero" replaced "Ninja" in the title.)

But, I agree with the above poster who said that the first Turtles movie is underrated when it comes to comic book adaptations, it's really quite strong in that regard in tone and certainly in look. There's a couple "lip syncing" issues in the movie but, damn, the animatronic heads and the costumes are just damn-near flawless. I mean they just look great. The only maybe minor quibble I have is how bendy and flexible their ventral shell is. But, damn, they look great.

Really would have been nice if in this movie they had just gone along that route, would have been nice to see how much further the animatronic and costume technologies in the intervening time could have really brought the turtles to life with them really being there. It seems the CGI looks pretty good, which really is no surprise in this day and age, aside from them being giants and having creepy fetus faces.

Again, I don't think the second movie is *too* terrible, I think aspects of it went a bit far (Splinter's "another funny!" line at the end) and being "less dark" like the first movie was. (Though, as a kid I liked that, so I digress.) Could have done without the Keno stuff (at both ages) and the Super Shredder stuff (at both ages.)

I do find it humorous they tried to "tone down the violence" by having the turtles use their weapons less but in the big fight with the robbers at the end we see Donatello twirl a yo-you around his head to knock some of the robbers out. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is just as bad if not worse as him hitting them with a stick.

I've not seen the third movie in years, perhaps well over a decade. I've got the first two movies on DVD and may give them a rewatch in the next day or so. But the third one is just very, very, meh. I think it suffers from some problems largely in the anamitronics though I think the idea and setting of it was interesting.

I think a really good TMNT movie can be done without making it to "kiddy" and doing something of the ridiculous things it seems this movie has done (made the tutrles look to complicated, making them 10-feet tall (or whatever), white-washing Shredder, making Shredder huge himself, apparently a robot, and overly complicated and intricate with all of the blades and weapons, etc.)

But, yeah, that first movie is really pretty underrated when it comes to looking back on comic-book adaptations. It's not really too bad given it's budget and the time it was made in.

 

[kirk55555]

I was too young to really get into TMNT (I was born in 1990, and it seems like it got big in the late 80s) but I had a vhs copy of the first movie, and I remember enjoying it. I still think the turtle suits look great, and it was pretty entertaining. Besides that, I definitely remember when the Turtles crossed over with my favorite live action martial art hero franchise, Power Rangers. Seeing the turtles meet the Power Rangers is still so weird to me (I saw the episode again last year, and its no less weird). It makes me wish we'd seen the Power Rangers team up with other 80s cartoon icons, like GI Joe or He-Man

 

[Christopher]

I liked the first movie pretty well (aside from the total miscasting of Corey Feldman as Donatello), and the second and third are silly but have some decent moments. But the fourth film -- and yes, TMNT is meant to be in continuity with the previous three films, allowing for a few tweaked details -- is by far the best, and I wish there had been more. (Although I wasn't crazy about the ultra-skinny character design they gave April.)

I'm annoyed by how the Variety review says the animatronic technology in the first two films was more primitive than the CGI in the new one. That's like saying sculpture is more primitive than painting. CGI isn't a superior technology to radio-controlled animatronics, it's simply a technology that goes in a different direction. The Henson Studios' animatronics for the first two Turtles films were absolutely cutting-edge, state-of-the-art technology and were very convincing. CGI, up until recent years, would've been a lot less convincing at conveying the sense of something being a tangible, solid creature rather than a relatively lifelike cartoon. So it's not an increase in technology, just an alternate direction for it.

In fact, I noticed something today that kind of bugged me about the new movie Turtles, and no, it's not their faces. I noted that in a couple of the photos, their shells don't look like turtle shells, but like shell-shaped backpacks being worn by muscular bipeds. Which is pretty much exactly what the performance-capture team was wearing. So maybe that's a case of the more "advanced" technology giving less convincing results. Although it's more likely that's simply a design issue. Of course the Turtles in the earlier movies were also human beings wearing pretend turtle outfits, but they were designed to be convincing to the naked eye, so maybe fewer design shortcuts were taken.

 

[Dream]

Disney XD channel will be airing all 3 TMNT movies this Sunday!

 

[darkshadow0001]

"He's using his Batman voice again." That obvious and so overdone.

Actually I thought that was pretty funny. I'm seeing the film in less then an hour, so when I get back I'll let you guys know if it was good or bad. The only thing I hope I don't hear is "Ice Ice Baby" in the song or see anything remotely Vanilla Ice in the movie

 

[Aldo]

I do find it humorous they tried to "tone down the violence" by having the turtles use their weapons less but in the big fight with the robbers at the end we see Donatello twirl a yo-you around his head to knock some of the robbers out. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is just as bad if not worse as him hitting them with a stick.

I hate to nitpick (wait, no I don't! I'm on a Star Trek message board) but it's Michelangelo who uses the yo-yo.

 

[CorporalClegg]

"Around the world!"

That's actually one of my favorite parts.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I can easily imagine the humor being less kid friendly in this new one. Will it have some poignant moments? Who knows, maybe that first movie will have this one beat in that department.

Pretty much this.

I just saw the movie and here's my assessment of the various elements…

The Movie-Going Experience: This is a big-budget summer movie and as you might expect, it looks great. They spared no expense at making everything look spectacular and glossy. What really stood out was how the budget allowed them to do a good sewer lair. The mountain scenes? That looked a bit iffy but it was still pretty good. I saw it in 3D. It didn't add anything and made some shots of a helicopter look like a toy. The best use of the 3D was in the title cards believe it or not. Also, the movie went by quickly. It didn't feel like an hour and forty minutes.

The Story: We got an introduction to our villains and the turtles, then their backstory and then the villain's plot was revealed, with April and the turtles having to stop them. Sounds generic but it was engaging. My big curiosity was seeing how they'd handle the story we know. The introductions were done well and the backstory flashback of how Splinter and the turtles came to be took full advantage of the big budget. I was impressed, especially with the backstory. Are these things faithful to the source material? Yes, mostly. They took some liberties but the basic story you all know is there. Then finally, there's the villain's plot. It was generic but unlike with the 1990 movie, the stakes were high. I should add though that a lot of what our bad guys were able to accomplish was made possible by a few screw-ups on the part of April and the turtles. We've seen this before in Batman movies.

The Turtles: The CGI was flawless and I liked that they were given distinctive looks. As characters though, they were poorly fleshed out and only started to develop towards the end, not quite getting there. We did get something from each of them, I'm just saying that it wasn't a lot.

Master Splinter: I liked what they did with him. When he's introduced, he didn't come off looking too good character-wise but I warmed up to this movie's slightly unique approach of avoiding the clichéd sensei. He was a cross between the Splinter we know and a boxing trainer.

April O'Neil: Megan Fox was certainly easy on the eyes, but was she a good April O'Neil? She was okay. She didn't blow me away but she didn't disappoint either. She was competent enough.

The Shredder: William Fitchner isn't Shredder. Fitchner plays Eric Sachs, the main villain in the movie. Tohoru Masamune plays Shredder. Their relationship reminds me of the one between Admiral Marcus and Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness. Shredder isn't Eric's subordinate but he has the secondary role and isn't much more than "the muscle". Loved what they did with his armor, by the way. Looks like someone took advice from The Incredibles too. A cape would have really gotten in the way.

The Action: The action ranged from generic, to over-the-top to quite spectacular. The ninja work from the turtles was quite good at times, the best we've gotten yet. There's also a fight scene between Splinter and Shredder that reminded me of the one between Yoda and Count Dooku. On the whole, you could see Bay's touch, but the movie reminded me of Spider-Man more than your typical Michael Bay film.

Nitpicks: I have one or two. I'll probably bring them up later. Just plot points and stuff.

...the turtles not using their weapons very little never bothered me much. But it DID bother me when Michelangelo in the cartoon series had his "weapon" go from nunchucks to grappling hook. (Because throwing a multi-pronged hook attached to a yards-long wire is "safer" than a twirling stick?!?) Which I believe was done because many kids were taking to Michelangelo and he had one of the two weapons easily made/used at home and also due to nunchucks being an illegal weapon in the U.K. (where "Hero" replaced "Ninja" in the title.)

I made myself some nunchuks back in the day with two sticks, some rope and grip tape covering everything. They were surprisingly good and sturdy. My dad told me that they were illegal or something, so I destroyed them.

I don't think the second movie is *too* terrible...

Watch it again. It's pretty bad.

I've not seen the third movie in years, perhaps well over a decade. I've got the first two movies on DVD and may give them a rewatch in the next day or so.

They're available on Blu-ray from amazon.com. All three movies in one case.

 

[Dream]

For those that saw the new movie.

How would you rank all the five TMNT movies from best to worst?

 

[Agent Richard07]

^ Hard to say. Right now...

Turtles (2014)
Turtles (1990)
TMNT
Turtles III
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The Secret of the Ooze

 

[Christopher]

The Turtles: The CGI was flawless and I liked that they were given distinctive looks. As characters though, they were poorly fleshed out and only started to develop towards the end, not quite getting there. We did get something from each of them, I'm just saying that it wasn't a lot.

That's disappointing. There have been some character moments in the trailers that made me think this could be a fun film after all, but if the character stuff is sparse overall, that would make it less fun.

April O'Neil: Megan Fox was certainly easy on the eyes, but was she a good April O'Neil? She was okay. She didn't blow me away but she didn't disappoint either. She was competent enough.

I really don't get what people see in her. She's moderately nice-looking, but that's the most I can say.

The Shredder: William Fitchner isn't Shredder. Fitchner plays Eric Sachs, the main villain in the movie. Tohoru Masamune plays Shredder. Their relationship reminds me of the one between Admiral Marcus and Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness. Shredder isn't Eric's subordinate but he has the secondary role and isn't much more than "the muscle".

Which isn't great, reducing the Asian villain to a token role in favor of a white villain. Also, I have to wonder if the script was retooled in response to negative fan reaction, because "Eric Sachs" seems like an obvious Anglicization of "Oroku Saki." I think the original reports that Sachs would be Shredder may have been correct based on the early drafts, but that the script was retooled to be closer to the original -- though not close enough, it seems.

The Action: The action ranged from generic, to over-the-top to quite spectacular. The ninja work from the turtles was quite good at times, the best we've gotten yet.

I dunno, I have a hard time believing that such huge, overmuscled creatures would be good at any martial art other than sumo, especially with the dead weight of those enormous backpack-like shells. Generally the Ninja Turtles are relatively small, or at least the size of average humans. Of course, turtles doing swift, agile martial arts moves in the first place demands a lot of suspension of disbelief, but making them so huge demands considerably more.

 

[Dream]

Honest Trailers - TMNT2

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSvTkMPB9mI[/yt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSvTkMPB9mI

 

[CorporalClegg]

The Turtles: The CGI was flawless and I liked that they were given distinctive looks. As characters though, they were poorly fleshed out and only started to develop towards the end, not quite getting there. We did get something from each of them, I'm just saying that it wasn't a lot.

That's disappointing. There have been some character moments in the trailers that made me think this could be a fun film after all, but if the character stuff is sparse overall, that would make it less fun.

I have to agree.

I assumed. It was something like this. Do they even call Saki by name? Because IMDB just has listed as "Shredder." I assume they do because it says Kari is in the movie also.

As far as the characters, that is really disappointing. I mean it's the Turtles that make the Turtles The Turtles. Err.. If you fallow my meaning. It's right there in the theme song. (The Chuck Lorre one, of course.)

Even back in the early comic days when they all wore red, each had a personality and character. It's what drove the stories.

If it's missing from the film, then Bay & Co. really don't get it. And putting welding goggles on Donny's head doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[Agent Richard07]

We did see some distinctive personality traits in the turtles but most of what we got involved jokes and wisecracks.

Karai was played by Minae Noji and Shredder was referred to as "Master Shredder" when he was introduced. I don't remember the name Oroku Saki being mentioned. We also didn't get a good look at his face in the brief time we did see him out of his armor. He was standing in a shadow.

And Christopher, interesting comments on Eric Sachs/Oroku Saki.

I found these...

As we reported back in July, Fichtner’s Shredder is a man named “Eric Sachs” — an apparent Westernization of “Oroku Saki,” Shredder’s real name in other TMNT properties.

Source

What are you doing in "Ninja Turtles"?
[Fitchner]: I play Shredder. It is cool. It's one of those things that came along where I thought, "Really? Let me think about this for a minute." [Laughs] Then I was like, "Yeah, OK, this sounds like a journey." I'm very glad that it worked out, I'm really glad that I'm doing it.

Source

Originally William Fichtner was going to play Shredder under the name of Eric Sachs.

Source

Looks like the script was retooled after all.

 

[JD]

I can't find it now, but upthread somebody made a reference to them whitewashing Shredder. One of the reviews I read earlier today actually said that Sachs, William Fichtner's character, is actually working for Shredder, he isn't Shredder himself. Looking the movie up on Wikipedia it says that Shredder is played by Tohoru Masamune.

 

[Trekker4747]

The Turtles: The CGI was flawless and I liked that they were given distinctive looks. As characters though, they were poorly fleshed out and only started to develop towards the end, not quite getting there. We did get something from each of them, I'm just saying that it wasn't a lot.

That's disappointing. There have been some character moments in the trailers that made me think this could be a fun film after all, but if the character stuff is sparse overall, that would make it less fun.

I have to agree.

I assumed. It was something like this. Do they even call Saki by name? Because IMDB just has listed as "Shredder." I assume they do because it says Kari is in the movie also.

As far as the characters, that is really disappointing. I mean it's the Turtles that make the Turtles The Turtles. Err.. If you fallow my meaning. It's right there in the theme song. (The Chuck Lorre one, of course.)

Even back in the early comic days when they all wore red, each had a personality and character. It's what drove the stories.

If it's missing from the film, then Bay & Co. really don't get it. And putting welding goggles on Donny's head doesn't cut the mustard.

Remember Michael Bay is involved in this movie.

The guy who made the Transformers secondary characters in their own movie.