Technology level on the Kelvin timeline

[WebLurker]

Well, the Voth have apparently had it for thousands of years and it works pretty well for them. And I already pointed out that the Xindi have a transwarpish technique with their subspace vortexes which they apparently are able to navigate to specific destinations at will.

The Transwarp Project was never mentioned in all of TOS or the movies and only got a mention in TFF because Excelsior just happened to be there when Enterprise docked. If Excelsior hadn't been in port at the time we still wouldn't have known anything about it, especially since the transwarp project itself was never mentioned again by anyone after Scotty sabotaged their computer. That the drive didn't work AT ALL is conjecture based on the Star Trek Chronology but there's no real source for it; considering the Enterprise was able to reach all the way to the center of the galaxy in just a matter of hours, it stands to reason the drive was not only successful but was actually compact enough to be retrofitted to a Constitution class too.

The Enterprise traveling to the center of the Galaxy in the fifth movie isn't a good example, since if Starfleet did possess such drives, then Voyager could've been brought home sooner. (I think the best assumption is that the Enterprise-A didn't travel as far as we thought.) Also the fact that the only species known to have successful transwarp drives being cultures far more advanced that the Federation doesn't help the case that the Federation didn't have it. (As I recall, the Xindi's tech wasn't true transwarp.)

(Alternatively, the TOS movies transwarp drive could've been the 24th century normal "warp drive," as Christopher L. Bennett has suggested somewhere. Maybe. Even so, that means that the obscene range that the comics alternate reality Enterprise is still off the table, based on the limitations from VOY.)

As far as the Kelvin timeline comics go, they're full of problems and mistakes, so I don't really see the need to explain this one either beyond: "It's a mistake and non canon, either."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Pegg has stated he approached Beyond with the idea that Nero's incursion changed the timeline in past as well as in the future

Yes, he did say that, but until it actually makes it into a film (which it hasn't, yet) it's still only a theory.

 

[Enterprise1701]

My headcanon justification for the Enterprise-A and Klaa's ship traveling to the center of the galaxy in TFF is that they utilized a rogue wormhole which was passing through the area at the time.

 

[wayoung]

My headcanon justification for the Enterprise-A and Klaa's ship traveling to the center of the galaxy in TFF is that they utilized a rogue wormhole which was passing through the area at the time.

Mine is TFF sucks and should be ignored

 

[Smellmet]

Mine is TFF sucks and should be ignored

Me too. You can happily jump from TVH to TUC without affecting the story arc in any way.

 

[wayoung]

Me too. You can happily jump from TVH to TUC without affecting the story arc in any way.

The only thing that's odd is the E-A being decommissioned when it's brand new.

Then again, how many tanks and airplanes does the US military have rusting in a Nevada desert, shipped straight from factories in the Midwest for no purpose other than to keep people employed?

 

[gerbil]

The only thing that's odd is the E-A being decommissioned when it's brand new.

Then again, how many tanks and airplanes does the US military have rusting in a Nevada desert, shipped straight from factories in the Midwest for no purpose other than to keep people employed?

I think it's semi-canon that the Ent-A was a redesignated Constitution class about the same age as the Enterprise.

(Also, I like TFF despite its myriad flaws in the technical department. I like the character moments quite a bit. It's one of the only movies I feel captures the McCoy, Kirk, Spock friendship from TOS.)

 

[Smellmet]

I think it's semi-canon that the Ent-A was a redesignated Constitution class about the same age as the Enterprise.

(Also, I like TFF despite its myriad flaws in the technical department. I like the character moments quite a bit. It's one of the only movies I feel captures the McCoy, Kirk, Spock friendship from TOS.)

That aspect, along with the score and some of the photography is literally the only thing I like about TFF. The rest is pure garbage in my view.

 

[wayoung]

I think it's semi-canon that the Ent-A was a redesignated Constitution class about the same age as the Enterprise.

(Also, I like TFF despite its myriad flaws in the technical department. I like the character moments quite a bit. It's one of the only movies I feel captures the McCoy, Kirk, Spock friendship from TOS.)

That aspect, along with the score and some of the photography is literally the only thing I like about TFF. The rest is pure garbage in my view.

They may play the KSM friendship well, but the rest of the crew is treated badly and it's not near enough to salvage the rest of the film. Nor do I think they do the relationship between the three any better than the other films really. They may have more screen time as just the three of them, but it's not superior to any of the scenes in any of the other films. It's just that they are on vacation in a park instead of in Kirk's quarters on the Enterprise.

 

[Smellmet]

They may play the KSM friendship well, but the rest of the crew is treated badly and it's not near enough to salvage the rest of the film. Nor do I think they do the relationship between the three any better than the other films really. They may have more screen time as just the three of them, but it's not superior to any of the scenes in any of the other films. It's just that they are on vacation in a park instead of in Kirk's quarters on the Enterprise.

Good point, I'd argue that the interplay between the characters in TVH is easily as good, hell even TSFS, TUC & TWOK have as good character moments. I think TFF gets a pass in this regard as it seems like we're seeing them in their personal lives for the first time, and Kirk's 'I've always known I'll die alone' speech is quite heartfelt.

 

[wayoung]

Good point, I'd argue that the interplay between the characters in TVH is easily as good, hell even TSFS, TUC & TWOK have as good character moments. I think TFF gets a pass in this regard as it seems like we're seeing them in their personal lives for the first time, and Kirk's 'I've always known I'll die alone' speech is quite heartfelt.

Heartfelt but horrifyingly sad and ultimately wrong.

Kirk's heroism strikes me more and more like bipolarism as I get older. Everytime in the show and movies where we see him raw and truthful he talks about how deeply sad and unhappy he is. Then he has huge bursts of energy and exitment when facing death and opposition, ending with a joke and smile before back to the daily grind. How is it that none of his Starfleet evaluations ended up with him seeing a psychiatrist for the 23rd centuries equivalent of SSRI's?

 

[Smellmet]

Heartfelt but horrifyingly sad and ultimately wrong.

Kirk's heroism strikes me more and more like bipolarism as I get older. Everytime in the show and movies where we see him raw and truthful he talks about how deeply sad and unhappy he is. Then he has huge bursts of energy and exitment when facing death and opposition, ending with a joke and smile before back to the daily grind. How is it that none of his Starfleet evaluations ended up with him seeing a psychiatrist for the 23rd centuries equivalent of SSRI's?

It's a shame Kirk's psyche wasn't explored more in the TOS films, they did a fine job of it in TWOK and made his character all the more interesting and sympathetic as a result. I know he's Mr. Swashbuckle® but it was something worth exploring more I think, all in hindsight of course.

 

[wayoung]

It's a shame Kirk's psyche wasn't explored more in the TOS films, they did a fine job of it in TWOK and made his character all the more interesting and sympathetic as a result. I know he's Mr. Swashbuckle® but it was something worth exploring more I think, all in hindsight of course.

It comes down to a healthy Kirk being an ineffective Kirk. He needs his pain

 

[Smellmet]

It comes down to a healthy Kirk being an ineffective Kirk. He needs his pain

I guess when you think about if, TFF is the only trek film since TWOK to touch on this aspect of Kirk. It's still the worst Trek film by some distance for me though.

 

[fireproof78]

It's a shame Kirk's psyche wasn't explored more in the TOS films, they did a fine job of it in TWOK and made his character all the more interesting and sympathetic as a result. I know he's Mr. Swashbuckle® but it was something worth exploring more I think, all in hindsight of course.

I actually think that TUC did a great job as well with Kirk's psyche. I think that's why I enjoy TUC so much is that Kirk has to reflect. I think TFF, for all it's holes, has a fantastic scene with Kirk, Spock and McCoy's pain.

 

[gerbil]

The pain scene is fantastic but ultimately it boils down to the "What does God need with a starship?" scene. First Kirk asks, then Spock backs him up despite the consequences, then McCoy--obviously something of a believer and clearly aware of the consequences--sides with Kirk and Spock and asks the question.

That, to me, defines their bond almost better than any scene in any other movie.

 

[Smellmet]

I actually think that TUC did a great job as well with Kirk's psyche. I think that's why I enjoy TUC so much is that Kirk has to reflect. I think TFF, for all it's holes, has a fantastic scene with Kirk, Spock and McCoy's pain.

You're right, it did, and it makes the film better. As much as the pain scene in TFF is dramatic and well acted, i was never sold on the 'fantasy' aspect of the sequence, and as a consequence, dislike it. I much prefer the camping bits.

 

[dswynne1]

It is funny how some board members are willing to let "technology continuity" slid in the Prime Timeline, but not so much in the Kelvin Timeline...

 

[fireproof78]

It is funny how some board members are willing to let "technology continuity" slid in the Prime Timeline, but not so much in the Kelvin Timeline...

Kelvin timeline can do no right

I think part of it, in all seriousness, is that there are only 3 films with minimal explanation as to why the technology has such changes. In my opinion, it is for the best, as we can see a different take on familiar tech (transporters, phasers, starships in particular) because the budget allows them to explore the consequences. We see escape pods on the bridge, how to disconnect the saucer, and the like.

But, it's a difference that goes without explanation, which can be good and bad.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The Enterprise traveling to the center of the Galaxy in the fifth movie isn't a good example, since if Starfleet did possess such drives, then Voyager could've been brought home sooner.

Sucks for Voyager, but it doesn't change the facts.

I think the best assumption is that the Enterprise-A didn't travel as far as we thought.

Or that Voyager and TOS don't take place in the same universe and warp speeds in the movie era are faster because their technology is fundamentally different.

Which, it pretty much HAS to be considering all the other inconsistencies between TNG+ and TOS.

As I recall, the Xindi's tech wasn't true transwarp.

So what? They still HAD it at least a hundred years before the Kirk's time. It's not a stretch to assume the Federation would have studied those vortexes and learned how to generate them artificially for propulsion purposes; the only thing weird about it is them taking a hundred years to make it happen, but that is adequately explained by the miniaturization problem mentioned above.

Even so, that means that the obscene range that the comics alternate reality Enterprise is still off the table, based on the limitations from VOY.

Applying the limitations of Voyager to literally ANY other production of Star Trek in any conceivable medium is already a horrible idea...

As far as the Kelvin timeline comics go, they're full of problems and mistakes

They're full of deliberate choices that contradict some of Star Trek's other (in many cases, questionable) choices. I am FAR from willing to call them "mistakes."