TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

[Guy Gardener]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Producers own episodes. Was Brannon limited to selecting form the episodes that he owned for fear of paying additional royalties?

Maybe Deanna was broadcasting an empathic Micky Finn to calm Will down. In a drugged state like that maybe he would spill Federation secrets?

 

[Captain59]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

I wonder why the fans chose this episode as one of the Fan Collectives?

Even Scott Bakula is a bit puzzled by this...

IIRC, when voting for these episodes, all the series were listed, and you just clicked away. Is it possible that a bunch of fans who hate Enterprise picked this episode knowing fans of the show hate it? Could that have really made a difference?

It makes no sense.

 

[Trekwatcher]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

I too have never understood why this is in the collective. I doubt there was anything malicious behind it.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Maybe the non-posting fans really did enjoy the episode. It's just the majority of the online community that dislikes it? Just a guess, who knows.

 

[HRHTheKING]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

What do others think? Is there a way to reconcile these two shows I am missing? They do not mesh very smootly, at least to me.

To me as well. TATV is best ignored. Riker's situation with Pressman is of no relevance to the holocrap program he and Troi are watching anyway.

"Pegasus" is a perfectly fine episode as it is, without being associated with an inferior one.

 

[galleywest]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

I also got the impression Riker made a snap decision to spill the beans when he was on the bridge of the Enterprise-E. He was beside himself and just couldn't stand the stress anymore.

I think you have this impression because...well, because it WAS a snap decision!

During TATV, it was like he was on vacation trying decide whether to shine his trombone in the mornings or evenings.

Yes, it was a little...odd...given the stress of his situation.

Did B&B even re-watch "The Pegasus" before throwing this mess together?

One can only wonder...

At this point this episode has become something I just scratch my head over. *shrugs*

 

[Terra Pryme]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Trekwatcher said:
So, I just watched TATV and "The Pegasus" back to back. In TATV Riker seems quite relaxed for most of the time, especially on the holodeck scenes (in the kitchen scenes he is really enjoying himself!). The scenes when he meets with Troi throughout the episode are the only times he seems ill at ease about what the ENT-D, Pressman, etc are doing.

In "The Pegasus" Riker appears to be under SEVERE stress. Frakes, who was never my favorite actor, really pulls off a great performance in this episode and is quite convincing in his misery. You can really feel him wrestling with his dilemma.

The incongruity between the two versions of Riker got me thinking; exactly when during "The Pegasus" does TATV take place? Can it be pinpointed at all? There is a gap between when they find the asteroid and when they go back to it after tricking the Romulans-could that have been enough time? Also, at the end of TATV Riker tells Troi he's going to have a talk with Picard, but in "The Pegasus" he seems to make his decision rather suddenly; on the bridge when he blurts out in front of everybody that the cloaking device is in Pressman's quarters and may be able to get them out of the asteroid.

What do others think? Is there a way to reconcile these two shows I am missing? They do not mesh very smootly, at least to me.

That's a good chunk of why the episode just plain sucks. Not only does it ruin ENT's goodbye, make its characters horribly out of character, but it also ruins one of the few good TNG episodes from its seventh season, and makes those characters horribly out of character.

To me, I thought "The Pegasus" was a terrible episode, among TNG's overall worst. It's beyond overrated! I really don't get the praise for it. Sure, they focus on ethics and all that. But really first off, it completely undermined the efforts Kirk's crew took to get cloaking tech for the Federation in "The Enterprise Incident". The treaty aside, the Romulans are among the least honorable races in the Star Trek universe (that is, since TOS. I liked them much better in that series). Just look at all the trouble they've caused from TNG/DS9/VOY, particularly VOY, where they stole the USS Prometheus and murdered the entire crew. The treaty should have been immediately rescinded after that incident. The fact is the Romulans have gotten away with too much and should be appropriately policed. Why the hell should they freely use cloaking tech and the Feds can't. It really doesn't make sense.

 

[Michael]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Why the hell should they freely use cloaking tech and the Feds can't. It really doesn't make sense.

To quote Gene Roddenberry: "Our people are scientists and explorers — they don't go sneaking around."

 

[Terra Pryme]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Why the hell should they freely use cloaking tech and the Feds can't. It really doesn't make sense.

To quote Gene Roddenberry: "Our people are scientists and explorers — they don't go sneaking around."

Very weak argument. The fact is "our people" are part of a military (Starfleet) that must utilize any means of protecting themselves. Enemy races like the Romulans and such have scientists and do some exploration of their own and they have all the means to protect themselves. But more often than not, they use it to cause trouble.

 

[Captain X]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

There's also the ideal that just because the other guy breaks his word doesn't mean that we're not going to break ours. Like I said, that's an ideal, and TNG in particuliar was all about idealism.

 

[Trekwatcher]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Why the hell should they freely use cloaking tech and the Feds can't. It really doesn't make sense.

To quote Gene Roddenberry: "Our people are scientists and explorers — they don't go sneaking around."

Very weak argument. The fact is "our people" are part of a military (Starfleet) that must utilize any means of protecting themselves. Enemy races like the Romulans and such have scientists and do some exploration of their own and they have all the means to protect themselves. But more often than not, they use it to cause trouble.

Agreed. The Cloaking Device is obviously very powerful and successful technology. There are tons of examples of it being used to great effect agains the federation. I always thought this was silly-the Federation knows how to make a cloak ("The Enterprise Incident", etc) and they should have incorporated it in one form or another.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Captain X said:
Probably not. It's more like they just read the description of it in the Encyclopedia or something just to get the basic plot.

A similar thing happened with "Flashback"/ST VI. Dmitri Valtane dies in VOY but lived in ST VI, and the gap between Praxis exploding and the Gorkon assassination was three weeks in VOY but three months in ST VI.

I actually don't mind TATV, but it would be a more believable Troi/Riker had they been preparing to depart for Titan (and a new series of telemovies?).

I read somewhere that the whole Valtane debacle was due to the production team on "Flashback" having viewed a fullscreen version of Star Trek VI, and thus Valtane was cropped out of the shot simply due to the fucked up cropping nature of full-screening a movie shot in widescreen.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

^
I just try to ignore Valtane's presence in STAR TREK VI's final viewscreen shot now that VOYAGER went through the long, hard song-and-dance of saying he died during the Khitomer rescue mission. I hate to line up in favor of the VOY episode rather than a Kirk-era movie(and a great one at that), but VOY did make Tuvok's presence on the Excelsior retro-canon and if Valtane died on the bridge during that mission then he sure as hell can't be standing behind Sulu at the end of the sixth movie.

 

[Michael]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

^ Two words: Identical twins.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

^ Two words: Identical twins.

Must have been Nikolai Valtane. The underachiever who had to pull constant waste-recycling duty.

 

[Captain X]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

And they just happened to be serving on the same ship.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Agreed. The Cloaking Device is obviously very powerful and successful technology. There are tons of examples of it being used to great effect agains the federation.

Such as? (I can't think of any where it was used ``to great effect''.)

I always thought this was silly-the Federation knows how to make a cloak ("The Enterprise Incident", etc) and they should have incorporated it in one form or another.

Having a device doesn't necessarily grant the ability to duplicate it: if you were go give a modern laptop to the greatest scientific institutions of 1908, they would be helpless to create a second one. The theory of how semiconductors work (for that matter the existence of semiconductors), the engineering techniques needed to explain it, and the manufacturing techniques needed to duplicate it would not be present and would need decades, maybe generations to duplicate.

And we have a reasonably sound explanation for why the Federation doesn't build cloaking devices: it's to prevent a new war with the Romulans. Given that this strategy worked for at least two-thirds of a century, and doesn't appear to have kept the Federation from any important strategic goals, that's a pretty good deal.

 

[Noname Given]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Agreed. The Cloaking Device is obviously very powerful and successful technology. There are tons of examples of it being used to great effect agains the federation.

Such as? (I can't think of any where it was used ``to great effect''.)

I always thought this was silly-the Federation knows how to make a cloak ("The Enterprise Incident", etc) and they should have incorporated it in one form or another.

Having a device doesn't necessarily grant the ability to duplicate it: if you were go give a modern laptop to the greatest scientific institutions of 1908, they would be helpless to create a second one. The theory of how semiconductors work (for that matter the existence of semiconductors), the engineering techniques needed to explain it, and the manufacturing techniques needed to duplicate it would not be present and would need decades, maybe generations to duplicate.

And we have a reasonably sound explanation for why the Federation doesn't build cloaking devices: it's to prevent a new war with the Romulans. Given that this strategy worked for at least two-thirds of a century, and doesn't appear to have kept the Federation from any important strategic goals, that's a pretty good deal.

Well considering Scotty was able to hook the thing into the 1701's deflector shield grid, AND make it work; and given the similar level of tech between the Romulans and Federation; I don't think Fed scientists would have much of a problem duplicating it. Hell, in Balance of Terror Spock basically stated the only thing keeping the Feds from developing the tech was the 'enormous power needed' - so, in the end, lets face it; the Feds never used the cloaing device because of the 1960ies 'stand alone' episode mentality that ruled the day. The Pegasus[/b[] backstory was obviously partially intended to offer we viewers a plausible 'in universe' explaination as to WHY the Feds never developed or used the tech.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

Which made sense, in conjunction with Roddenberry's longstanding(at least until he died)edict that the Federation was too "ethical" to go sneaking around in cloaked ships.

 

[dave_R_treker]

Re: TATV question r.e. "The Pegasus"

I wonder why the fans chose this episode as one of the Fan Collectives?

Even Scott Bakula is a bit puzzled by this...

IIRC, when voting for these episodes, all the series were listed, and you just clicked away. Is it possible that a bunch of fans who hate Enterprise picked this episode knowing fans of the show hate it? Could that have really made a difference?

It makes no sense.

I too have never understood why this is in the collective. I doubt there was anything malicious behind it.

I think that not only was TATV the worst Enterprise episode but the WORST episode in the entire Star Trek franchise.

The episode didnt make any sense. For example when during the TNG episode Pegasus did this occur. Riker's demeanor during TATV doesnt match with that of The Pegasus. The whole concept of the episode being taken place on the holodeck was absurd.