TAS, I'm ready for a re-animating
- Thread starter RAMA
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I agree. Paramount's gross insults should be confined to the people who made the visual effects of the original series.
That's not fair. The TOS Remastered team took great care to be faithful to the design and feel of the original shots. They could've renounced them altogether, redesigned the Enterprise and the other ships, and done it all in a modern, flashy style, but they didn't. They kept the basic aesthetics intact as much as they could.
What in bloody blue blazes are you talking about? You're confusing two entirely unrelated issues. I'm not talking about creating new product. If someone were to make a new animated Star Trek, I'd be happy to see it done with a new visual style and with modern techniques. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about going back to a pre-existing creation and modifying it. And if you're doing something like that, you have to approach it as a restoration -- to strive to be faithful to the original artistic intent so that you don't lose the essence of it as you modify it. The makers of TOS-R tried to capture the look and feel of the original FX shots as closely as possible. The makers of the TMP special edition tried to make their new shots look as though they'd been made in 1979 using the technology of the day.
The proper analogy wouldn't be doing new paintings beyond the Mona Lisa. It would be, say, being commissioned to paint a larger, full-length version of the Mona Lisa. If you were doing that, you wouldn't just ignore Leonardo's style and do it in your own totally different style. The only remotely non-blasphemous way to do it would be to try to preserve and pay tribute to Leonardo's style as much as possible, to create something that was faithful to it. That doesn't mean you can't then go and do your own original painting in a completely different style, because that's something entirely separate.
I agree. Paramount's gross insults should be confined to the people who made the visual effects of the original series.
That's not fair. The TOS Remastered team took great care to be faithful to the design and feel of the original shots. They could've renounced them altogether, redesigned the Enterprise and the other ships, and done it all in a modern, flashy style, but they didn't. They kept the basic aesthetics intact as much as they could.
I'm aware of that, and although my previous comment certainly didn't show it, I have a great deal of respect for CBS Digital and their efforts. The results of their work generally look great as well. I also happen to think that any and all changes in the nature of the content -- if not also the very CG work itself -- fly in the face of the concept of "remastering" the original series, regardless of the claim that CG is necessary in order to bring the series up to HD specs.
Would it be possible, then, to take existing TAS and fix some of the more egregious errors (such as the pink tribbles, the pasty white human skin, the uniform colors changing randomly, the ship flying sideways*) without having to create a whole new product?
* Yes, it really does this. Watch the opening credits if you don't believe me.
* Yes, it really does this. Watch the opening credits if you don't believe me.
I love the TAS animation style, both the cels and the often sumptuous, rectangular, painted backgrounds that went on and on in both directions. What I'd love to see is movement of the characters at a higher cel-count ratio, or CGI artwork that replicates a more early-Disney ratio.
Since the episodes are also so short, I think it would be possible to create some new "B" plots - or at least vignettes - to support the main stories. For example, what kept M'Ress so busy when all the female crewmembers had to take over ship's duties when the male crew (except Arex) were incapacitated by "The Lorelei Signal"? Maybe use Alan Dean Foster's Kirk story ("ST Log Ten") that happened parallel to "The Slaver Weapon"?
And yes, correct all the colouring errors, and those times when Spock was on the bridge and a planet at the same time, or a mising viewscreen frame put a Klingon onto the Enterprise bridge during a ship-to-ship communication.
More Arex and M'Ress cameraderie scenes! (Like them lunching together in "The Practical Joker"). Some more opportunities to see Arex walking - he only does it once! And so on...
Since the episodes are also so short, I think it would be possible to create some new "B" plots - or at least vignettes - to support the main stories. For example, what kept M'Ress so busy when all the female crewmembers had to take over ship's duties when the male crew (except Arex) were incapacitated by "The Lorelei Signal"? Maybe use Alan Dean Foster's Kirk story ("ST Log Ten") that happened parallel to "The Slaver Weapon"?
And yes, correct all the colouring errors, and those times when Spock was on the bridge and a planet at the same time, or a mising viewscreen frame put a Klingon onto the Enterprise bridge during a ship-to-ship communication.
More Arex and M'Ress cameraderie scenes! (Like them lunching together in "The Practical Joker"). Some more opportunities to see Arex walking - he only does it once! And so on...
Only if by "CGI" you mean 2D animation drawn with a digital drawing program, which is how 2D animation is done these days, basically. (Sometimes the frames are hand-drawn, scanned, and digitally inked, painted,and composited, and sometimes the whole cartoon is made digitally with Flash animation -- which actually replicates many of the features of the limited animation of the '60s and '70s.)
Interesting idea in theory, but where do you get the voices? Doohan and Kelley are no longer with us, and the other actors' voices have changed too much in the past 35 years.
Besides, TAS episodes were longer than a "half-hour" animated program today would be -- 24 minutes instead of the modern 20-21 minutes.
I'm very open to the idea of a newly produced animated series set in the era of Kirk and Spock. The voices could be made to sound like the original voice actors... or not. The production design could replicate the original series to whatever extent seemed feasible. (Frankly, given the trend toward simple, highly stylized animation designs, the look of TOS' ships, sets and costumes could almost literally be translated directly into a new animated series.)
Best of all, it would be fun if new animated shows were written by science-fiction writers. Many modern animated shows already bear the fruits of more sophisticated writing. Let's take that and kick it up a notch with a genuine sci-fi twist.
I love the Filmation animated series, but let's leave it as-is and go boldly toward something different.
Best of all, it would be fun if new animated shows were written by science-fiction writers. Many modern animated shows already bear the fruits of more sophisticated writing. Let's take that and kick it up a notch with a genuine sci-fi twist.
I love the Filmation animated series, but let's leave it as-is and go boldly toward something different.
On one level I'm intrigued by this idea. But there's another part of me that worries that the animation would be taken in a wholly different and more contemporary style as opposed to just making the original style more fluid and a little sharper. I admit it could also use some more shadowing for added depth.
Well, I suppose they could do an animated series with the voices of Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Karl Urban, Simon Pegg, Zoe Saldana, John Cho, and Anton Yelchin.
Or here's a thought: of current animation voice actors, who would you pick to play the characters? I bet Kevin Conroy could do a good Spock. And Cree Summer would be a fabulous Uhura.
Nice idea, but the thing is, writing for prose and writing for TV are two very different disciplines. It isn't always easy or even possible for an author to make the transition. Still, there are authors who can do both (such as Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens and TrekBBS's own David Mack and James Swallow), so it's possible.
Exactly what I mean.
I've heard several fans impersonate Arex and M'Ress. James Doohan used to recall a fan who could do Arex better than he did.
Oops. I know better than that. I mistyped.
We'll have to disagree about Filmation's work. Their stuff is poorly composed and badly designed in general. Sadly, that was the state of the art for TV animation at the time. And while Trek looked better than a lot of contemporary stuff, its visual design and shot composition is generally bland and uninteresting.
You won't get any argument from me there. I mentioned that very thing later in my post.
But the topic is re-animating the show. If one accepts that conceit, that means replacing the animation. All that's left of the original show are the audio tracks, and if those are junked for hponed-in performances (I don't disagree) all that's left would be to start with the same scripts and do them over.
Where did I ever imply that? One reason one wants isolated audio track in animation is so you can change the timing in a scene, make dialogue overlap, etc. If sound effects and music are mixed to the tracks, you're stuck with the existing timing, even if it doesn't work and has no energy.
See above. I disagree that it's well designed. It's simplified and functional, but to the point of blandness.
An analogy to TOS-R is only apt if, like TOS-R, the work was tweaking bits to fit into a show that remains 95% the old show. Unless you're doing isolated updates (like adding more inbetweens or replacing selected shots), updating the animated show would mean re-animating it. If someone re-animates it, then to maintain elements Filmation's style would indeed be "aping" it, unless the team working on it realized the solutions Filmation came to were the best.
The full quote read (with a typo corrected), "Then again, I'd hate another robotic CGI take or yet another wanna-be anime show. I'm with Jon Kricfalusi on this: most animation today is stylized for its own sake, not in service of the show, and most of what passes for design is style without function." It was a comment against generic 3D or stylization for its own sake in a "remake" or "reimagining". I think we both agree that's a bad idea.
Overall, I don't think we're in that much disagreement except over the quality of Filmation's design, and if it's worth hewing to or nodding at said style if such an improbable project ever happened.
The problem here is that it's bound to be subjective. One person may not like a show's visual style, but there will always be people who disagree. TAS has its fans as well as its detractors, and if anyone were hired to "remake" it in some way, the only responsible way to do that would be to try to serve both audiences. If I were hired to reanimate an old cartoon, even if I personally hated its design style, I wouldn't be so arrogant as to assume I have the right to impose my personal preferences on everyone else and just ignore the feelings of the show's fanbase. I would try to be faithful to the essence of the show's style, whether I liked it or not.
It's basically the same principle that goes into writing tie-in fiction. When I write Trek or Marvel-Comics novels, I do try to bring my own voice to it and improve on a few things, like making the stories as scientifically credible as I can. But I don't throw out the essentials of what defines the Trek universe or the Marvel universe, even when there are elements of those that I don't like and would never use in my own original work (like humanoid aliens, psi powers, etc.). When you're hired to elaborate upon an existing property, it's just basic professionalism that you try to retain the core essence of its voice and style even while bringing something new to it. You don't throw everything out and replace it with your own preferences. That would be stupid, because you're trying to make the work appealing to the property's existing audience as well as a broader audience that might want something different.
It's basically the same principle that goes into writing tie-in fiction. When I write Trek or Marvel-Comics novels, I do try to bring my own voice to it and improve on a few things, like making the stories as scientifically credible as I can. But I don't throw out the essentials of what defines the Trek universe or the Marvel universe, even when there are elements of those that I don't like and would never use in my own original work (like humanoid aliens, psi powers, etc.). When you're hired to elaborate upon an existing property, it's just basic professionalism that you try to retain the core essence of its voice and style even while bringing something new to it. You don't throw everything out and replace it with your own preferences. That would be stupid, because you're trying to make the work appealing to the property's existing audience as well as a broader audience that might want something different.
^^I agree. I love TAS the way it is, recycled cels and all. And I'd be happy to see a new animated Trek in a more modern style (though preferably 2D) -- so long as it were aimed at teen/adult audiences and done with plausibility and intelligence, rather than kid-oriented.
Hm. It occurs to me that Paramount and Nickelodeon are both Viacom subsidiaries. So just imagine if they gave an animated Trek series to some of the folks who made Avatar: The Last Airbender. That would be great.
Hm. It occurs to me that Paramount and Nickelodeon are both Viacom subsidiaries. So just imagine if they gave an animated Trek series to some of the folks who made Avatar: The Last Airbender. That would be great.
That's a good question, and it's one that I can't answer, because I don't watch enough television to know of more than a handful of current animation voice actors, such as Conroy.
As Christopher stated above, how about a new animated series once XI is released? Ever since the first Star Wars film, ST has followed SW. ENT was a prequel series which came after the first (?) SW prequel. Clone Wars is making big noise on Cartoon Network (I've seen the theatrical film and the first few eps - very impressed so far, but that's me). Why not a new animated ST?
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