Tarantino and Abrams to Do Next Trek Movie

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Maurice, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Hela

    Hela Commodore Commodore

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    Quiet a few professional critics mentioned it’s similarity to the older movies. Unfortunately, they phrased that (literally, in the case of Empire Magazine) as the movie being ‘more of the same.’

    Certainly not a damnation to the slush pile, but also not exactly the sort of critique to light a fire under the pants of the average non-Trekkie.
     
  2. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Care to translate that word salad?

    And knock off the insults, okay? I may think these movies are stupid, but I have never once called anyone who likes them stupid (or "thick").

    I've made my position on nuTrek quite clear over the years, and am not really in the mood to reiterate all of it here.

    Oh, did they whine about their girlfriends?

    If nuUhura would confine her relationship crap to off-duty hours, that would be one thing. But she doesn't. If nuKirk had told her something along the lines of "not now, Lieutenant, save it for after the mission," I'd have had a hell of a lot more respect for nuKirk. Instead, he meekly shuts up as ordered while she continues to berate nuSpock for whatever it is she thinks he did wrong.

    Y'know what? I get that Zoe Saldana is considered to be a good actress by a lot of people. I personally don't get that impression, and have no idea why she merits usurping nuMcCoy as the third part of the classic triad. What did nuUhura do to actually earn that, other than by being in a personal relationship with one of her commanding officers?

    You're right - why even have the character of nuMcCoy? What did he actually do that contributed anything to any of the movies, besides unkill nuKirk with a sample of nuKhan's magic blood? The rest of the time he's too busy cracking one-liners and doing nothing at all that gives the impression that he knows how to run the sickbay of a starship.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm always amused by "magic blood" in a universe were transporters and omnipotent beings exist.
     
  4. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The "magic blood" thing just amuses me because there came a point where it was becoming cliche beyond just Trek where someone's blood became a major plot device. That same summer had MAN OF STEEL with General Zod wanting to extract Superman's blood to repopulate Kryptonians. In fact, the very next project that Orci/Kurtzman worked on based the conflict between Spider-Man and Green Goblin over his blood. Ah crap, even NEMESIS used that device.

    I remember when leaks of SPECTRE came out that there was as a major concern by fans over the concept of having Bond injected with "smart blood". Like oh no, is this gonna be about the villain wanting to capture Bond for his blood??? Turned out it was just a similar tracking device that we saw Bond injected with in CASINO ROYALE that also monitors his vital signs for HQ.

    With Trek, I think a lot of the issue is that suddenly the augments have blood that has magical healing properties, which was never a thing before STID.
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's not word salad. It's plain enough. You were conflating two things which aren't that closely related.

    And I never called you a name nor meant to. I said I was "going to have to assume your are being deliberately thick" which means I believed you were choosing to misapprehend me so as not to concede a point. Sorry if that word choice came across as an insult.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  6. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think Tarantino's a poor fit for Trek, bit would certainly give him a shot at it. Pegg looked to be a great fit and gave us the crapfest of Beyond.

    If Quentin does get a go, is it too much to hope that he'd get a fresh start with his own crew and ship rather than slog on with the current ones ?
     
  7. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    Well, yours was an attempt.. but no offense, you don't do sarcasm well.

    (FYI, I don't think Orci would've done a better job though)

    Sorry, I wasn't asking you to pause your busy schedule to make a long complex essay with everything you think about these movies.
    You were only asked to provide examples to support your assertions about Uhura supposedly whining about her boyfriend in all the movies. Something you fail to do. I wonder why.

    No, because they suck so they have no girlfriends.

    Kidding aside (...though in Spock's place, my answer to Bones in that first scene from Beyond would be extremely petty. But I'm mean, I don't have his class), your argument is that a character did x thing you consider unprofessional. And you said trek is no place for comedy and they all should act professional. I say that using your standards, then Scotty and McCoy should get fired since they argue with their superiors, while on duty, all the time and they don't even refer to Kirk as their captain. And they are comic relief.
    The fact they are single forever has nothing to do with your argument, unless you have double standards for a romantic relationship compared to other kinds of relationships in spite of all posing the same 'issue', according to your logic.

    Simply put, your (using your fav word) whining about Uhura, for the specific arguments, is silly when there are male characters who do much worse than her and you obviously give them a pass.

    I disagree with you harping on that ONE scene from stid, but I'm still waiting for you to make examples of all these supposed scenes where Uhura, in all the movies including beyond, did what you claim she did.

    You stating that 'she did that' isn't enough, especially when it flies in the face of what really happens in the movies. I'm honestly curious about what scenes from beyond and st09 you perceive as her whining about Spock or her love life.

    Besides, I'm not sure how they can confine the relationships to off duty scenes only when the narrative never shows the characters 'off duty' (aside from beyond)

    He'd be a hypocrite since he had been 'whining' about Spock himself in most of that movie, including in front of their superior officer (Pike). What Kirk did was worse than what Uhura did (in fact, for 3 seconds he lost the ship), complaining about Spock in front of Pike because he, basically, didn't lie in his report too isn't exactly professional.

    But you probably didn't notice it. Too preoccupied with your fanfictions about Uhura supposedly turning trek into greys anatomy.

    Spock was wrong, a fact Kirk himself knew and Spock himself understands.
    Had McCoy been in that scene, he'd probably argue with him too after that comment, (and less rightfully so than his girlfriend did), and you would now justify his racism and insults by passing it as 'depth', and just him making Spock see a human perspective on things.

    Of course, I'm annoying and I must be a 'killjoy' to some here, but this fandom can miss me with the ridiculous double standards.

    That sounds bitter. Your preferences have nothing to do with your argument, aside from now making it seems you are making straw man arguments against Uhura just because you feel she threatened your favorites.

    I'd try to at least hide those ulterior motives, just saying. Or save time by being honest since the start, instead of trying to disguise your real issue behind different arguments.

    And, again, to you and the others who endless concern troll about Uhura being in a relationship: this argument loses credibility when faced with the evidence that, according to many of you (Urban included), McCoy obviously can have a purpose in the story and be 'third' lead only through his interactions with the actual main guys, thus through RELATIONSHIPS.

    And compared to Uhura, he already is much more defined as the best friend of hero than Uhura is as the girlfriend. Even in beyond, Spock is the one who was the most pining for her and thinking about her (and talking about her), while she was, for the better or worse, too busy trying to not die in the ends of Krall to even allow herself to express the worry she surely had for Spock and the rest of the crew.

    Almost the entirely of McCoy's screentime in beyond is listening to Kirk or Spock issues, but no one cares about his or his feelings. He may get to know Spock a bit more, but I'm not sure Spock got to know him better than he did before. Bones isn't even allowed to know, thus feel one way or another, that HIS best friend wanted to leave the ship too.

    It seems Urban himself is only happy about getting more screentime, and he minimizes or ignores good McCoy scenes from the other movies just because they are less about the original trio, or he didn't get the most screentime with the main dudes. It's a pity because even his dynamic with Kirk was better in stid, IMO. Why? Because it was more mutual and McCoy was allowed to have feelings for his friend (and Kirk cared and worried about him too) that had nothing to do with the k/s bromance. He was more like Uhura, someone who - like her - had a connection to one of the main guys and that existed on its own merit. Beyond gives them some nice interactions, but the narrative seemingly forgets McCoy is Kirk's best friend too to, once again, pass Kirk/Spock as the only 'bromance' that matters, and Spock as the only one Kirk apparently can't do without.

    Also, sure, McCoy never interacted with other characters a whole lot in the other movies either, but in beyond he's really stuck with Spock. It really wouldn't hurt to let him interact with the other 5-6 characters too. In stid he at least did that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  8. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like Saldana as Uhura and like that they doubled her role as a linguist to show she has more skills besides knowing the tech in her job. However, I don't like that they tacked on a romantic subplot with Spock, which is typical of male writers on blockbusters having no idea what to do with female characters outside of their profession, that their personal lives only gravitate towards boys. Granted this is something that has persisted through most of Trek, but I wish a reboot would have done away with that.


    So yeah, that whole shuttle ride in STID was a low point for me as well. Uhura should be better written than relegated the nagging girlfriend. It doesn't help that right after that scene she fails in her communication with the Klingons in achieving diplomacy (though Khan coming in guns blazing didn't help either).
     
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  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except for Khan healing rapidly and it is noted by McCoy in "Space Seed". Not a direct dot-to-dot, but not an out-of-left-field assumption by the writers, either. Much like the early flirty interplay between Spock and Uhura in TOS was the inspiration for the relationship in the Abrams films.
     
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  10. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not is as contrived as the awkward cutaway to McCoy injecting human augment blood in a dead tribble in the middle of a tense conversation between Kirk and Khan.

    All this talk is reminding me that I wish this iteration of Trek were a TV show because there could have been some mileage out of seeing how Kirk recovers and what the side effects of Khan's blood has on him physically and mentally.* In the film it's really just treated in as inconsequential, that his death and resurrection doesn't really amount to much beyond a foot chase and hollow talk of "revenge is bad".


    *Or it could have ended as bad as that storyline in SMALLVILLE with a dead person revived by Clark's blood, but deteriorates over time and needs more of the blood to be stable. Yes, this actually was a thing.
     
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  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I do agree that was very contrived "reminder" to the audience about Khan's blood.
     
  12. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Looks like you wrote three times as much as I would have anyway.

    My point was that I've already made my points over the years and see no purpose in digging up those posts to make them again. If you want to see them, feel free to research my posting history, if it goes back that far. Hint: Start in 2009 and work forward.

    Sorry, teacher. :rolleyes: I might have overlooked something in the third movie, as I found that one incredibly forgettable. It was supposed to be about something, but I honestly don't remember what.

    Well, at least that assessment is correct.

    I never said "trek is no place for comedy." Well-placed, well-executed comedy is a good thing. One of my favorite episodes is "The Trouble With Tribbles." I enjoyed "A Piece of the Action."

    There is exactly one place in all of the nuTrek movies where I thought comedy was well-placed and executed. It was one of nuSpock's lines, where he was asked about his attitude, and he asked to which his superior officer was referring (he had multiple attitudes going on at the same time). Obviously I'm not sure of the exact phrasing, but that one did make me laugh.

    That's about it. NuMcCoy's one-liners don't make me laugh. NuScotty's sidekick is supposed to be funny, I suppose, but in a Star Wars way... and this isn't Star Wars, or at least that's what I thought.

    I really don't give any sort of rodent's posterior whether or not nuKirk, nuMcCoy, or nuScotty have romantic relationships. It doesn't surprise me that Captain Frat Boy doesn't seem to have one. He can't even stop himself from leering at an undressed female crew member when she makes it plain that she doesn't want him to watch her change her clothes.

    Just because I haven't written an essay about every single character doesn't mean I give them a pass. I've made my loathing of nuKirk quite clear over the years. I've got no use for nuMcCoy because he's just there to recite one-liners.

    Was there not a scene in 2009 in which she lit into him for interfering in her ship assignment due to their personal relationship?

    Obviously the writers could write a scene or two that shows them off-duty.

    Where did I ever say that I consider nuKirk to be professional? He's an overgrown child who was given command of a starship.

    By that word salad, I surmise that you think I've conflated nuTrek with Grey's Anatomy - a show I've heard of, but don't watch.

    I don't read nuTrek fanfic. I don't read Grey's Anatomy fanfic (what would be the point, since I don't watch the show?). I don't even read recent TOS fanfic, unless it's the online version or continuation of stories or story arcs that were originally published in print form over 20 years ago.

    Interesting conclusions you've been jumping to.

    Show me where I ever "justified" any of McCoy's (TOS McCoy) racist comments. I never have. I've never justified or excused that with either McCoy or nuMcCoy.

    It's amazing how you see "double standards" where they don't exist. You're assuming that just because I don't write an essay condemning something, that must mean I'm in favor of it.

    Okay, so why not make the main triad of characters nuScotty, nuChekov, and nuSulu? Why not relegate nuKirk, nuSpock, and nuMcCoy to the background?

    I am not a Zoe Saldana fan, and I don't like nuUhura. That's it. I really don't see why she's been given the third place in the classic triad and nuMcCoy has been pushed out and relegated to sitcom one-liners. I'm not saying nuUhura should be relegated to sitcom one-liners; it's good that they made her competent with martial arts and languages. But if you're going to try to convince me that this version of Star Trek should be considered as good as TOS, this isn't the way to do it.

    Why don't you just spit it out? Stop tap dancing around what you imagine my "ulterior motives" and "real issue" to be, and just say it.

    It seems pretty obvious to me what you're trying not to say. I'm curious to know if I'm right. If so, you're being extremely presumptuous, really insulting, and completely off the mark.
     
  13. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    except when this is what writers maybe do with white female characters, but Uhura is black and black women are hardly ever the love interest, let alone portrayed in a mutual loving relationship with the main guy like Uhura is.
    In fact, a relationship between her and Spock, that was hinted as idea in tos too, became a possibility now for the first time in 50 years. In the original thing, Uhura didn't even have a first name, let alone a romance. The forced Kirk/Uhura kiss was as progressive as trek could be about interracial relationships (that in some countries were forbidden by law), and they almost couldn't even do that.
    Your comment may actually come across as you basically making the argument that the reboot is bad for not keeping her character to the racist standards of the 60s. It's like you are saying they are bad for not denyind her, AGAIN, a romance and a personal life.. and because they didn't completely define her with the 'strong independent woman' stereotype that, frankly, is annoying and dehumanizing for female characters in general, let alone those who are part of minorities.
    If dudes aren't 'weak' just because they have feelings and relationships, then women aren't either.

    Again, McCoy is much more defined as 'the friend' than Uhura is as the girlfriend, but no one is complaining about that here. or elsewhere. You all WANT him to be defined by relationships, that's the only purpose he can have in the story according to some. So, please, for the love of everything that is holy, stop concern trolling about Uhura and her own relationship just because she isn't a 'bro'. That's pathetic.

    In a thing like trek that is so much based on relationships, and those are so beloved to fans, it seems beyond ridiculous to harpy on another kind of relationship just because it wasn't in the original, and just because it isn't another friendship between boys.
    Are we supposed to have interpersonal relationships getting represented by bromance only just because that's everything tos, in the 60s, allowed?
    Who said that romantic relationships, and specifically the dynamic with Uhura, is less important or relevant to the story and the characters, and to humanize them to the audience, than friendships? It's just your own personal preference that, while legit, it means absolutely nothing in terms of wanting to establish what is 'needed' or not in the actual narrative, let alone what is 'needed' for the whole audience.


    Lastly, the notion that a female character is automatically 'weak' and 'just the girlfriend' only because she has a romantic relationship is as sexist as that stuff you are projecting on the creative team. It's as sexist as the concept that a woman can have a purpose in the story only if she's a love interest.

    The writers simply made a narrative choice. They wanted to elevate Uhura to the original trio level, and did that in the same way the original series elevated McCoy and Spock compared to the other secondary characters: by making them important to the main guy who was Kirk. THROUGH A RELATIONSHIP.
    Making Spock and Uhura 'friends', though, wouldn't be, in this case, that new and groundbreaking for this trek. For one, trek doesn't 'lack' friendship dynamics, especially for Spock. It may be more 'new' for these characters to have a romantic relationship since they never had one in tos, and for reasons that in her case were connected to the racism AND sexism of the era too ( not to mention it's more challenging for Spock and creates a nice parallel with his father/parents that you can't have with the friendships that, again, he already had in tos). Secondly, she DOES have the friendship with Kirk anyway (and for him, to have a female friend might be as new and different as Spock having a girlfriend. In both cases, it isn't what the audience would expect by default due to their 'reputation'), but some of you just ignore it because you seem to be capable of paying attention to the dynamics only if they are 'bros' (even Scotty/Kirk is overinflated, by some, as a 'friendship' compared to Kirk/Uhura). Third: why the heck not?


    she wasn't the nagging girlfriend, she just has agency in her relationship just like the dudes. This is all about how you choose to perceive the scene and reduce her character to. Not the writers.

    I'll argue that in the scene the only damsel in distress, whose contribution to the action was completely useless, was KIRK, not Uhura. And Uhura is the only one in that mission whose unique skills seem to be at least used in a way that explains her presence there. Why were Kirk and Spock specifically needed there, by the way? what kind of skills they have, and what contribution they made to the mission, that other guys couldn't have easily replaced them? If we wanted to nitpick, both of them were emotionally compromised so they shouldn't even be there.

    But the main issue of your argument is the notion that a scene showing a character being brave and using their skills is a failure just because the character's plan doesn't work. No offense, but it's silly. Not all the heroes succeed, a lot of them fail too.
    It doesn't compute to you that, perhaps, the purpose of the scene is not showing that Uhura can do the impossible, but. rather, she is competent and that, in her group, she's the one who is willing to make an attempt and even sacrifice her life if only to give her crew mates more time, or try to give them a chance.
    If they were to follow Kirk's idea to just get out and fire at the klingons, they'd be all dead by now. If anything, her scene is more in the 'trek' spirit because even if hopeless, she's using communication to try to resolve the situation like it's expected from a starfleet officer. And she's showing a lot of bravery. For someone who called her klingon rusty, thus not perfect, she not only speaks it flawlessly, even her body language suggests knowledge about that race on cultural level (e.g., her choice of words, the way she looks at the dude, Kirk could never replicate that with an universal translator)

    but hey, it was so much better when she did a fan dance, or she used a dictionary to speak klingon. Or when she was definited only by her job (in a reality where women shouldn't even feel like they still need to make a choice), and never allowed to have romantic feelings for anyone.. unless she got manipulated by crazy mofos.
     
  14. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd never seen any pf QT's movies before this news. I think I was kinda turned off by the prospect of this particular kind of violence.

    I watched Pulp Fiction for the first time this week, and I gotta say, it pulled me in. It's not a genre that I have much interest in, but I loved the dialogue and I thought the storycrafting in general was great. If his other movies are anything like that, I could definitely see the attraction of letting him play in the Star Trek sandbox.

    Basically, this movie left me with the impression that he keep a movie that involves a lot of people talking moving. So, yeah.

    People were all nervous about Justin Lin of the Fast and Furious films doing the last one, and it is arguably the best of the three. I suspect this guy can do it. I'm going to watch more of his films to see. This weekend: Jackie Brown.
     
  15. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    no offense, but who cares about the fact you made your points over the years? You are failing to make them here and now.
    and this is a message board, we aren't talking about a book you wrote and pubblished years ago, so you tell people to go back and 'read it' if they want to know what happens or what you think. Let's be real.

    and why should I research your posting history to know what you are talking about? I watched the movies, I know what happened. Thank you? You are the one making claims about things supposedly happening there, and yet, when asked to, you fail to provide simple examples... and you make up excuses about how you don't have the time to (ironically) repeat yourself, when that's what you are already doing now, anyway.


    that was clear, and without reading your posting history. It begs the question about how you can make, then, claims about stuff happening in movies that you don't even remember.

    I don't dispute what you find funny or not. I dispute, though, your wanting to establish what and when that stuff is 'well-placed and executed' according to what you like or not. When the characters are 'allowed' to not be professional and when not. Doesn't work like that.
    And I too love that scene with Spock, but it can be argued that, according to your logic, he was being inappropriate with Pike, or at the very least, he shouldn't be such a smartass with his superior (and it wasn't the first time. Look at my signature^ ), especially not when he's reprimanding him and Kirk.

    again, you keep assuming that those who reply to you must read your whole posting history before doing so. This is not your personal blog, we can only judge what you write here and now. There are tons of users in this board, how are we supposed to remember what everyone said before? How are we supposed to read it all.


    that's not 'whining about her love life while on duty' (<-- the claim you were making).
    For one, she doesn't even mention their relationship in the scene, and you don't even know they are into one.
    If anything, it's Spock the one, there, who is 'putting' their relationship into business that has nothing to do with it, not Uhura.
    Everything you see her doing is calling him (that you know is her boyfriend only later) out on his shit for interfering with her ship assignment because of his own insecurities, thus him doing something unfair and illogical for his own emotional reasons. Anyone would be entlitled to do that. You do get a hint there is something between them more from HIS body language and his words than hers.

    The interesting juxtaposition in that scene is: while Kirk got on the best ship only thank to a relationship and favoritism (McCoy sneaking him aboard with him because they are friends), Uhura almost didn't get what she had actually earned with her academy accomplishments (that she lists, so you know them) because her ever so logical boyfriend overcompensated to not show favorism (or because he was concerned for her, like the novelization seemed to suggest).
    Yet, fandom will harpy on Uhura and project favoritism on her, but not on the male character who actually is advantaged by favoritism (by both McCoy and Pike), and thus personal relationships.


    it's not like I don't want them to, but I have a feeling some people would complain it's 'ot' and wasting screentime if they were to give them off-duty moments (like they did with Kirk and Bones in Beyond).
    Frankly, I don't think Uhura (and by consequence, her dynamic) can win for some people.


    if i made a connection and some inner joke, it was purely accidental. I just mentioned the first tv-show (that I watched) that came to my mind where people constantly talk about their love life while they are at work.

    here is the thing: if you make a post about x issue and only mention/attack one character, that you admit disliking, in spite of many others possibly fitting with your critique even more than said character, chances are some people might get the impression that you specifically criticize that character only and are making pretentious straw man arguments that, at the very least, are too partial.

    and people always have issues with the boys too but, strangely, it's only Uhura who is constantly attacked in these threads for everything the male characters do, or are even praised for. Can't expect the double standard to not get noticed.

    I'm not here to convince you about anything.
    and if you think this trek iteration isn't as good as TOS it's fine, but I don't see how it's relevant to the topic.


    uhm, I said it already. Your ulterior motive seems to be a preference for some characters over Uhura, as your comment hinted.

    again, I'm not trying to say it. I said it already. You are making straw man arguments against Uhura, specifically, because you don't like her.
    what's more? the double standards some people in the fandom have for Uhura that might suggest sexism? Didn't 'hide' that 'accusation' either. I had always been pretty clear about that opinion of mine, even at the point of boring.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  16. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But will Paramount be able to raise the money to make it? :eek:
     
  18. ISS Enterprise

    ISS Enterprise Commander Red Shirt

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    Hey since when has a lack of $$ stopped anyone from spending it, well in The U.S. anyways. Lol
     
  19. ISS Enterprise

    ISS Enterprise Commander Red Shirt

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    Color me as excited about QT n JJ writting a ST script
    (one eyebrow raised)....

    If Paramount thinks it blows then it won't get anywhere
     
  20. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    LOL
    after reading the most recent troubles in paradise the studio is facing, I shouldn't find this comment so funny!