Taking out Rura Penthe: Was it a good idea?

[urbandk]

I just remarked in a different thread that I think removing the Rura Penthe sequence diminished Nero's characterization.

Regardless of whether this sequence advanced the plot, I think it was necessary to build the Nero character, a character who at times seemed thin to me.

What are your thoughts about the excision of the Rura Penthe sequence? Do you think its omission for pacing and clarity outweighs the contribution it would have made to the Nero character?

Excuse me if this topic has already been considered in a different thread. I don't recall seeing anything on precisely this subject.

 

[Agenda]

It confused audiences, so yes, it was a good idea.

 

[Skywalker]

I think removing it was more confusing than leaving it in would have been. I could only follow what was going on because I already knew beforehand that Nero had been stuck on Rura Penthe for twenty-five years.

 

[Saul]

I thought removing it confused audiences as it just gives the impression that Nero was flying around for 25 years doing nothing. Also it takes away from the damaged character we see after that time span. He looks clearly tormented yet we know hardly anything about what he has gone through. It would have made a stronger villain if they had given him more screen time, instead he is just another bad guy that we don't give a duck about.

 

[The Wormhole]

The way things are depicted in the movie as is is confusing enough, Nero just hangs out in some remote area of space for 025 years, then returns just because Spock and his precious red matter have arrived. Never mind the fact that the Space Octopus was powerful and advanced enough that he could have taken on anyone and possibly laid waste to Vulcan and Earth anyway.

But still, the Rura Penthe scene made no sense either. Nero lets himself be captured and tortured by the Klingons simply as a way to bide time for 025 years. Then, when he know Spock and his precious red matter have arrived, he breaks out with relative ease and it just so happens that the Space Octopus was nearby. I guess the Klingons figured he'd escape some day and knew he'd want his old ship back.

 

[Kegg]

More time spent on Nero in theory is a good idea, but from what I know of the Rura Penthe scene I'm not sure it would have been that useful. I think when it comes down to it Nero was not a very well concieved or written character, in motivation or in his personal chronology, so maybe less was indeed more for this movie.

 

[jadcox@mindspring.com]

I like the scenes, and wish they could have been left in, although the other cut scenes needed to go. I DO wish they'd filmed Shatner's cameo as written and kept the additional ice cave dialogue that make the meeting seem like less of a coincidence.

 

[EyalM]

I'll have to see those scenes before I can commnet on the matter...

 

[barnaclelapse]

More time spent on Nero in theory is a good idea, but from what I know of the Rura Penthe scene I'm not sure it would have been that useful. I think when it comes down to it Nero was not a very well concieved or written character, in motivation or in his personal chronology, so maybe less was indeed more for this movie.

I can definitely agree that more stuff for Nero would have been good, and I also have to agree that it doesn't sound to me like the Rura Penthe scene would have added anything truly significant to the proceedings.

 

[Peter the Younger]

But still, the Rura Penthe scene made no sense either. Nero lets himself be captured and tortured by the Klingons simply as a way to bide time for 025 years. Then, when he know Spock and his precious red matter have arrived, he breaks out with relative ease and it just so happens that the Space Octopus was nearby. I guess the Klingons figured he'd escape some day and knew he'd want his old ship back.

That's why I was glad they left it out. It would have given more depth to Nero's character, but would have made the Klingons look like complete idiots.

"Hey, let's store this uber-powerful ship that we for some reason haven't been able to retro-engineer right next to the place where we keep our most dangerous prisoners!" It would be like storing flying saucers at Guantanamo - except the al Qaeda prisoners know how to fly the saucers.

 

[Tom]

we don't know the ship was captured, many of the crew could have been on some planet getting supplies when captured?

 

[Peter the Younger]

we don't know the ship was captured, many of the crew could have been on some planet getting supplies when captured?

You're right, we don't know for sure. I'm making an educated (and cynical) guess based on the typical level of story logic we see coming out of Hollywood.

I do seem to recall it it being mentioned somewhere, though - either in the scenes or some offhand comment by the writers - that the Klingons showed up after the Kelvin shuttles left, and towed the thing away.

 

[Tom]

Wasn't the official script floating around for a little while, I know some here got to see it. Aren't the deleted scenes in the script since it was filmed? Also, I heard the R5 (Russian) release of the dvd will be out this week (Transformers II already came out on R5 this past week) so we will know soon from that. There is already a dvd version of the movie out there (it came out last week) but the R5 Blueray will be out with the extras, someone will just append the english audio track to it.

 

[npsf3000]

But still, the Rura Penthe scene made no sense either. Nero lets himself be captured and tortured by the Klingons simply as a way to bide time for 025 years. Then, when he know Spock and his precious red matter have arrived, he breaks out with relative ease and it just so happens that the Space Octopus was nearby. I guess the Klingons figured he'd escape some day and knew he'd want his old ship back.

+1

Some more might of been nice, but that seen would of only added complexity. Currently the story makes sence, he waited for Spock to arrive - why or what he did in the mean time is not of importance. Might not be great but is better than klingons.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Judging by what I've heard about those scenes and what I've seen so far in Star Trek : Nero I have to say that it was a bad idea removing the Klingon scenes completely.
As it was a bad idea not including some of the Nero-Spock background from the 24th century instead of the Spock mind meld sequence.

I'm afraid I fail to see exactly how the audience would be confused or turned off. On the contrary I think that it would have made ST an even better movie and Nero a more memorable and complete character.

 

[M'Sharak]

A couple of weeks before the movie went into general release, Abrams was quoted as saying:

There was a big Klingon subplot in this, and we actually ended up having to pull it out because it confused the story in a way that I thought was very cool but unnecessary. So we have these beautiful designs that we’re going to have to wait and do elsewhere I guess.

It may just be me, but "a big Klingon subplot" brings to mind something with a little more scope than the two deleted scenes to be included in the DVD extras:

00:00:42:12 (DELETED SCENES - KLINGONS TAKE OVER NARADA)

and

00:02:59:10 (DELETED SCENES - PRISON INTERROGATION AND BREAKOUT)

(durations and descriptions from here)

How big is "big"? Could it be that there was originally more to the Nero/Rura Penthe angle in the script than 3 minutes, 41 seconds and change, and that the two scenes which actually got filmed represent an attempt to reduce or compress that "big" subplot? Was it that compressed version which was judged confusing to the story in a "very cool but unnecessary" way, or was it something larger?

Whatever the case, I can't say for certain without having seen them whether the inclusion of these scenes would have helped or hurt the movie, but I do think and have said before that Nero as a character got less time on-screen and less depth than he deserved. Bana did a good job with what he had remaining, but I think more might well have been better for the character and for the story -- if not these scenes, then something which may already have been trimmed before shooting started in order to get the running time down.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I'm really looking foward to seeing those deleted scenes. But it'll break my heart if they really should have been left in.

 

[Tom]

Well the Blueray R5 dvd just came out so I'm sure people will be posting those scenes on youtube and other video sites over the next couple days.

 

[Tom]

Here is what the orinal script has for the Klingon stuff:

Kingons capturing the Narada after the Kelvin rams her

38A INT. MED-EVAC SHUTTLE - CONTINUOUS 38A
George's voice goes STATIC -- confusion washes over her face --
suddenly LIT BY A BRIGHT GLOW -- she looks over, with wet
devastated eyes --

-- what she sees is the MASSIVE EXPLOSION -- quickly SUCKED AWAY
in the vacuum of space -- and she's CRYING -- holding her new
baby who just lost a father -- his life altered forever...

39 OMIT 39

40 EXT. STARFIELD - ETERNAL NIGHT 40
T
he shuttle SAILS AWAY with the others... HOLD ON THIS... for a
long beat. Then PAN OVER to see NERO'S SHIP TUMBLING SILENTLY
THROUGH SPACE -- DEBRIS still raining from the explosion --

41 INT. NARADA - BRIDGE - CONTINUOUS 41
MAYHEM: ALARMS and CREW work to stabilize the ship (OVERLAPPING
ROMULAN DIALOG TO BE WRITTEN) -- we arrive at Nero, who, with
small specks of HUMAN BLOOD on his face, just STARES at the
fucking HOLOGRAM OF SPOCK -- he's OBSESSED.
Ayel works a monitor, yelling out something (in Romulan) to one
of their men -- and as a result:

42 EXT. NARADA - CONTINUOUS 42

Gargantuan "BLADES" EXTEND from the ship like otherworldly SAILS
-- and the ship begins to STEADY -- but then ANOTHER SHIP
APPEARS -- DECLOAKING FROM NOTHINGNESS: a fucking KLINGON VESSEL
-- then ANOTHER -- AND ANOTHER --

43 INT. NARADA - BRIDGE - CONTINUOUS 43
And we're on Ayel as he witnesses, on his monitor, ships,
popping up ALL AROUND THEM -- which is when they HEAR a VOICE --
speaking KLINGON -- and we SUBTITLE:

26ZA CONTINUED: 26ZA

KLINGON VOICE (P.A.)
Trespassing vessel: you have entered the
jurisdiction of the Klingon Empire.
Power down and prepare to be boarded or
you will be destroyed.

Eyes wide, Ayel turns to Nero, still staring at Spock's image:

AYEL
(SUBTITLED, in Romulan)
Commander Nero -- we're surrounded.

Finally Nero looks up.

AYEL (CONT’D)
(SUBTITLED, in Romulan)
Sir-- what are your orders?

And we PUSH IN ON NERO as our MUSIC BUILDS, then we CUT TO:

Rura Penthe:

OVER BLACK: "THREE YEARS LATER".
FADE IN:

64A-EOMIT 64A-E

64F INT. NERO'S CELL - NIGHT 64F

Nero lies on the floor of his cell, semi-conscious, looking like
death. Behind him the DOOR OPENS. Two KLINGON GUARDS enter,
backlit.

KLINGON GUARD #1
The day you've been waiting for is upon
us, Silent One. And look. No sign of
salvation. No sign of change. Just more
pain.

And they both lift his limp body up -- as something miraculous
happens -- NERO SNAPS TO LIFE AND SINGLE-HANDEDLY BEATS THE SHIT
OUT OF THE GUARDS -- TAKING THEM BOTH DOWN IN TEN SECONDS -- in
what seems like an instant, he's the only one standing here --
holding both of the Guards' rifles -- which he TWIRLS, badass.

64G INT. AYEL'S CELL - NIGHT 64G

PUSH IN ON THE DOOR as it opens -- Ayel, chained, looks up,
intensely -- and sees that it's NERO who has arrived -- we PUSH
IN TIGHT ON HIM as he SPEAKS FOR THE FIRST TIME:
NERO
The wait is over.
Off Ayel, we CUT TO:

64 CONTINUED: (2) 64
64H EXT. STARFLEET ACADEMY GROUNDS - DAY [FORMER SC. 82] 64H

 

[shapeshifter]

That sounds pretty fucking good, to me.