Sybok..20 years later

[RobertScorpio]

Yeah, I know, it's only been 19 years...but 20 years looks cooler in the title...

I know that most TREK fans bash this movie, and consider it the worst TREK film of all. I do not. It isn't the best by a long shot, but I do think it is better than Insurrection and Nemesis..

But the jist of this post is Sybok. I know Roddenberry and others consider him un-canon, but I thought Sybok was a very interesting character. I think Luckinbill did a great job, and I wish some of the books had explored more of his past...maybe some have. If so, please let me know.

I watched V two weeks ago. My kids loved it because I have raised them to consider KIRK almost God like (and Shatner is very much so)...So anything with Kirk, for them, is great..

I think D. Kelly's best work is in that movie. The scene with Sybok in the observation lounge was just great.

But, again, I come back to Sybok. Probably one of the most interesting Vulcans ever.

What do some of you think? (No tomatoe throwing!!)

 

[Maurice]

I'll only throw at tomato and your spelling of tomato (no "e").

I liked Sybok as a character, but I didn't like him being Spock's brother, which was needless.

 

[Sharr Khan]

DS9Sega said:
I'll only throw at tomato and your spelling of tomato (no "e").

I liked Sybok as a character, but I didn't like him being Spock's brother, which was needless.

This only makes me like him more. I love the contrast of the full Vulcan son of Sarek taking what many a Vulcan would consider a human path well the half-Vulcan tries to out Vulcan the Vulcans for a lot of his life.

I know that most TREK fans bash this movie, and consider it the worst TREK film of all. I do not. It isn't the best by a long shot, but I do think it is better than Insurrection and Nemesis..

Trek V is completely rewatchable where as Insurrection and Nemesis aren't.

Sharr

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

STV is definitely a flawed film, but I find it enjoyable non the less. The basic story--which admittedly could have done with a couple more rewrites--is fantastic and very Roddenberry-esque and there are some very fine character moments sprinkled throughout the film.

For the most part I like Sybok and never really understood why people--including Roddenberry--were so upset about him being Spock's brother.

 

[Sharr Khan]

For the most part I like Sybok and never really understood why people--including Roddenberry--were so upset about him being Spock's brother.

You and me both. I find DC Fontana's reasoning that it somehow makes Spock less unique weird myself. This might make sense if Sybok were also a hybrid but he's a full Vulcan. Simply having siblings doesn't make Spock less unique or interesting as an individual...

Sarek's also proven he's enjoys the company of women since he went and married after Amanda's death there's little reason to think there wasn't some other Vulcan female out there originally.

Oh and GR's (poor) attempt to have Sybok overwritten in TNG's "Sarek" actually made me think that Sarek had yet another son. Just the way it was worded didn't make me think that Picard was talking about Spock at all. I remember thinking: "Oh which son of Sarek is this Picard's talking about?"

Also I can't think of a good reason for Picard of all people to have been invited to Spock's wedding (and people complain about the Trekverse being small) before becoming Captain of the Enterprise-D...

Sharr

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Yeah, the idea that Spock having a fully Vulcan half-brother makes him less unique never made sense to me. Its like arguing that Sam Kirk makes Jim less unique.

 

[Joker]

Sybok was a great character, Luckinbill was a great actor.

STV aimed high and missed. Better than the rest, which aimed low and hit.

Edited: Having sat and thought about it for a few minutes, STV is quite easily the best film behind ST:TMP.

 

[shapeshifter]

I'm with you Rob, Sybok is a fantastic character who, despite not being embraced by fans, went on to be the inspiration for a great many more rebel Vulcan's all of which I find fascinating.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Edited: Having sat and thought about it for a few minutes, STV is quite easily the best film behind ST:TMP.

Now there's a gutsy thing to say!

Hey I know it entertains me, and find myself interested in not only the regulars but the guests as well.

Is it me or is the third Star Trek V thread this month?

Sharr

 

[StarryEyed]

I rewatched Trek V recently after 19 years and I'm afraid I despised it as much as the first time. I do think it beats Nemesis for the worse Trek film by a pretty good margin. I know where you guys are coming from though because I really liked Insurrection a lot. A few really unpopular episodes too. Go figure.

I didn't have a problem with Sybok but I did think it was pointless and a bad move to make him Spock's brother. Why not just make him an old acquaintance?

 

[Sharr Khan]

I didn't have a problem with Sybok but I did think it was pointless and a bad move to make him Spock's brother. Why not just make him an old acquaintance?

In the grander scheme, it makes everything Spock chooses more meaningful and there is the practical reason as I think has been stated they needed a really solid reason why Spock wouldn't 1, shoot him and 2, making Sybok Spock's brother opens up the possibility of doubt for the audience if Spock will side with him over Kirk.

That possibility wouldn't have existed if Sybok were simply an old school chum since you remove the temptation.

Sharr

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I agree with what Sharr Khan says above. Additionally, I've yet to see any real reason that making Sybok and Spock brothers was such a horrible thing to do, while having them be brothers adds much depth to their relationship and the situation they find themselves in.

 

[Defcon]

RobertScorpio said:
I think Luckinbill did a great job, and I wish some of the books had explored more of his past...maybe some have. If so, please let me know.

IIRC the novelization had some backstory for him, but beside that I can't remember him being in any other novel.

 

[Kegek]

It's an okay film. Probably an improvement over TVH, which isn't much because I don't like TVH much.

Wasn't D.C. Fontana's objection that they'd never mentioned Spock having a brother before? Anyway, as a character Sybok was alright, though a decidedly lackluster doppelganger. One wonders what would have happened had Sean Connery played the role...

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Well, they never mentioned Sulu having a wife or daughter before Generations when Demora showed up. Just because someone isn't mentioned doesn't mean they don't exist, unless there is some evidence precluding their existence (ie If Spock had been established as an only child or something).

 

[StarryEyed]

I never could accept that Spock wouldn't shoot him. Ever heard of stun? Shooting him in the leg? Even failing that, Spock could have probably wrestled him down being that he had Starfleet combat training and Sybok did not. In the end though, this guy was intent on stealing a Federation starship. There is now way it is believable to me that Spock allows that to happen. It would be like a present day naval officer allowing his unstable civilian brother to make off with a nuclear submarine.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Old thread about Star Trek V

DC Fontana's thoughts about Sybok as stated by Therin of Andor: Roddenberry and DC Fontana were quite angry about the invention of a Spock sibling for ST V. Fontana had composed many memos during TOS that Spock worked better as a unique character, and the show made sure not to introduce pointed eared brothers and sisters for fear of diminishing Spock's uniqueness.

Really this makes me think DC Fontana doesn't grasp the idea of IDIC either... siblings in no way make anyone least of all Spock a wholly unique being (until hybrids became a mainstay of Trek) less unique.

I never could accept that Spock wouldn't shoot him. Ever heard of stun? Shooting him in the leg? Even failing that, Spock could have probably wrestled him down being that he had Starfleet combat training and Sybok did not.

Well he didn't have a phaser - it was a projectile weapon, I think the thinking was Sybok was much stronger then Spock being he was a full Vulcan. Shooting him in the leg, wouldn't have worked very dramatically I think.

Can't say much about StarFleet combat training, since it usually changes with the plotline... just cause your "trained in x" it doesn't always follow you are the superior fighter or that outcomes is always yours to have.

Sharr

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I liked Sybok too.

 

[StarryEyed]

Wasn't the weapon Kirk kicked away the one that Sybok was carrying himself? So Sybok was carrying a weapon that was only capable of killing and Spock is going to just let this man take a starship with enough weaponry to lay waste to entire worlds?

 

[Peach Wookiee]

If I'm not mistaken, that's right.