Swearing in Star Trek - Steve Shives

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Tuskin38, Jul 28, 2021.

  1. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I'm afraid the history of the word is clearly tied to classism against impoverished and lower-income rural white people. There has been an attempt in the past few decades to associate the word and low-income rural white people in general with racial bigotry, but I would argue that that is itself an example of classism -- racial bigotry is a big problem among white people of every level of socioeconomic status, not just low-income white people.

    If you mean to talk about bigoted white people, I would urge you to just use that phrase.

    I would characterize the use of the word "redneck" among some poor and low-income rural white families as an attempt to reclaim a word that has been used to marginalize them -- the same principle being at play among some black people who try to reclaim the N-word. I would argue that just as people who are not black should not in general use the N-word, folks who are not impoverished or low-income rural white people should not in general use "redneck."
     
  2. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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    Did the term "redneck" ever appear in Star Trek?

    :shrug:
     
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  3. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

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    How so?
     
  4. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    After running a search for it on the Chakoteya Transcript webiste, I can confirm it has not. It's never been used in Doctor Who, any of its spinoffs or Andromeda, if anyone's curious.
     
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  5. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    not necks - shirts!
     
  6. TIM Thomason

    TIM Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Steve Shives. This thread is about his video, theoretically.
     
  7. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Commodore Commodore

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    I hadn't noticed (in one viewing) any overt bigotry in that particular video (just lots of unnecessary verbiage and beating his point into the ground), but I've never seen (and have better things to do than seek out) any of his other videos.
     
  8. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Steve Shives's work has always been great. I am skeptical of claims that he is a bigot.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    So was I. I was a serious admirer of his, until he declared in another video that Republicans were essentially equivalent to members of the Ku Klux Klan. Considering how many people of color identify as Republicans, that's a pretty ugly thing to say.

    He's not bigoted by race, sex, orientation, or identity; you're right. But I don't take kindly to being compared to Klan filth, just because I don't share his political views.

    So yes, I consider him a bigot. And a hypocrite, because of how outspoken he is about racism, homophobia, etc.
     
  10. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, but the leader of the Republican Party ran on promoting white supremacy. He implied that Mexicans are all rapists, claimed that a U.S. citizen of Mexican heritage could not be a judge in his case, that black people all live in violent ghettos, that majority-black countries are "shitholes," and that Muslims all needed to be banned from the United States. He refused to disavow the endorsement of David Duke, and he claimed that there were "fine people on both sides" when neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates terrorized the streets of Charlottesville. He supported racist, abusive police forces that murder and terrorize black communities with impunity. And the Republican Party has utterly embraced him, even to the point of trying to overturn a legitimate democratic election in which the American people chose someone else.

    Shives's comments were not bigoted. The Republican Party has become a white supremacist party, and his comments are perfectly fair. You are stealing the rhetoric of racial justice in order to avoid acknowledging the plain truth of Republican Party racism.
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    I respect your right to disagree with me, but I utterly refuse to adopt your opinion. It is ridiculous to declare that 70 million people are white supremacists because one person happens to be. Especially when some of those people are not white themselves.
     
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  12. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Most of those 70 million are fucking gullible or are at the very least fine with the concept of white nationalism so long as they themselves feel like they have clean hands.
     
  13. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    "White supremacy" doesn't always encompass hatred or belief in the supposed inferiority of people of color; it also encompasses a mere willingness to support policies that harm people of color but benefit white people, even if there is no hatred motivating you.

    There were plenty of people in Nazi Germany who joined the Nazi Party but who did not themselves hate Jewish people or think Jewish people inferior. They joined because of the social status party membership brought, or to find a sense of belonging, or because it was the thing to do. And history has a word for people like them: "Nazis." Because your motivations don't actually matter when you're supporting the oppression of marginalized people.

    If those 70 million people who voted Republican really object to white supremacy, then they should have chosen to vote for a different political party. But they didn't. They voted for a white supremacist party because the party's actions that hurt marginalized people were not enough to dissuade them. Comparing them to the Ku Klux Klan is perfectly fair.
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Or maybe they just fear the Democratic agenda. I know I do. So while I could not support Trump (the man makes me sick), I understand why others might feel differently.

    I'm not going to tell you who you can and can't admire. I admired Mr. Shives until I realized what he is, now I have ceased to admire him. Make your own choice.
     
  15. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    you guys don't even know what the word left means - both biden and obama are a countrymile to the right of our conservative chancellorette - bernie sanders is a right wing social democrat with the word union tattoed across his forehead
     
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    One can't support the Partito Nazionale Fascista (PNF) and not expect people who opposed il Duce to paint all its members with the same brush. Same goes for il Ducebag.
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    If they fear the Democratic Party enough to support a white supremacist party, then they are white supremacists who deserve to be characterized as equivalent to the Ku Klux Klan by Mr. Shives. That is not bigotry on Mr. Shives's part; it is merely an accurate observation.

    Mr. Shives is deserving of admiration and his comparison is completely fair.
     
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  18. captain crow

    captain crow Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It didn't do that.

    The Klingon Ambassador gets called a pompous ass.

    And then we have McCoy who was also the primary swearer in the three previous films.


    These happen before they travel to the past.


    The bus conversation was pointing out that people in the time period they landed in swore a lot. Not that swearing was some bizarro lost form of language in the future.
     
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  19. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    An opinion that tells me everything I need to know about you. Mr. Shives at least made me laugh (a lot), and for a time he inspired my genuine admiration, despite my disagreement with his political and religious views. For you, I have nothing but contempt. And there's nothing you can do about it.

    Sorry that you couldn't convince me that I'm a disgusting KKK-er piece of filth, but I'm just not that stupid. Better luck next time.
     
  20. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    what is so disgusting with mr biden's center right politics that you consider mr trump as an acceptable lesser evil?