Sussman Responds to Cogley!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by MikeSussman, May 9, 2003.

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  1. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    yep and that includes the 8 million americans who watched "broken Bow" and gradually stopped watching enterprise. face it. it's lost a lot more viewers than it currently has. so i'd agree that the "General Trek Community" has given up on enterprise

    [/QUOTE]

    People are turning off because you can't turn Sci-Fi into a soap opera - not to mention the fact TNG opened up the floodgates for dozens of other scifi series and even scifi channels....

    ENT is perfectly fine, but unfortunatley no one cares anymore - the question is, how do you make them bother to tune in again, thats the 64 billion dollar question..

    IMHO the answer is:

    E.T landing and introducing themselves - Trek ratings for all past and present shows would go through the roof ;)
     
  2. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually they have the Queen (and 7 of 9 during "Scorpion") but still your point doesn't mean anything. We didn't know anything of the Borg, so at the time having a spokesperson didn't seem so out of place. It was later on did we find out how unique it for the Borg to have a spokesperson and the assimilation of the Federation must have been a unique experience for the Borg.


    To agree or disagree is not the point. The fact of the matter is that these plot holes do exist and Mike Sussman had to come on the board and "explain" them to us. His explanations no matter authorative doesn't mean anything becaue it's what's shown on the screen that counts and any future episode can contradict him.

    Finally plot holes and loose ends not intended are a sign of poor quality. I don't care what series it's in. It's sign of laziness and lack of attention and yes many TOS, TNG, and DS9 had them too and it ruined more than one good episode.

    First of all why does a credible explanation need to be found. Shouldn't it be self-evident. Second these explanation are nonsense.

    1. Section 31; When has B&B used anything from DS9. Sure they use the Defiant (which got trashed) in FC and made references to the Dominion War in Voy and the later movies but usually to explain why it wasn't ridiculous for Worf to be there or put other series in context. Why wasn't Section 31 mentioned in Voyager, or Nemesis. Finally what would be Section 31's movtivation. The US supossedly covered up UFO to stop public panic. Since Archer beat the Borg why would there be a threat of public panic.

    2. It was forgotten. Based on ON SCREEN evidence also unlikely. In TOS they had historical records about the Khan, the Nomad probes, Flint, and the Romulan war. In TMP they had information about Voyager 6, even the activation code. In TNG they had information about all sort of exploration missions and colonization attempts. Why was Archer's mission report and the data from the Borg missing?

    3. The Borg weren't perceived as a threat. The most meaningless explanation of all. Just because there not a threat doesn't mean you delete all information.
     
  3. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You should follow your own advice. ST4 was made before TNG and Michael Piller is given credit for turning around TNG in the third season. Berman basically left DS9 to Ira Behr and Ron Moore. Anyway Berman responisble for the crappiness of ST now regardless of his "past" achievements.
     
  4. Guest

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    Thank you Mr. S. I didn't need any clarification, Overall, I liked the episode. And understood what was going on Too Bad your insight will fall on deaf ears. the deaf ears of those who will continue to bash the show. I do not need to be spoonfed Trek, but its obvious alot of Folks need that type coddeling. Keep up the good work!
     
  5. Mallory

    Mallory Moderator In Memoriam

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    OK, I am now convinced that Mike Sussman has entirely too much of a sense of humor to be truly working in La La Land. Either that or he is indeed one of those rare individuals in the region of overblown egos.

    Anyway, I'll add to the chorus of "Thank You's" for taking the time to address some of the concerns raised here. :)
     
  6. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    I've never seen Archer pee on screen either, but I'm pretty sure he takes a whiz every morning when he wakes up.
     
  7. Stewey

    Stewey Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, I have an entire range, socks, cardigans, shirts, bandannas and of course underpants.

    In fact, to celebrate this episode, I even put one on a sick bag. :lol:
     
  8. Ptrope

    Ptrope Agitator Admiral

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    MikeSussman, I'm going to put my ass on the burner here ...

    While I have not been impressed by the stories your name has been attached to, and I was especially unimpressed by "Regeneration" (I gave it a D- in a generous moment on the grading poll), and my appreciation of your commitment and concern for the quality and integrity of ENT-as-Star Trek has been severely diminished by quotes that appeared in Star Trek - The Magazine, wherein you defended writing shortened scripts by claiming that making the characters speak more slowly, thus somehow imparting "thoughtfulness" to their words (I don't see the characters in The West Wing as being thoughtless, when that show has probably three times the dialogue, at what must be three times the speed), I am impressed by your willingness and thoughtfulness to participate in the discussion of your efforts, and your efforts to clarify what are indeed glaring omissions in the story that finally made it onto the screen for public consumption.

    I thought Samuel T. Cogley's review was both hilarious, and spot on. I'm glad you accept it in the spirit in which is was intended, and that you can maintain, as the author, a much broader perspective than so many of those who had nothing more to contribute than an hour of couch-warming, but who are somehow experts on every nuance and unrevealed intent of your screenplay. Personally, I didn't see anything in it that made it a story that needed to be told, either as a Borg story in the context of ENT, or simply an action-adventure on its own. The latter I attribute mostly to poor direction and wooden acting, but the issue I have with the Borg in this episode is not only that they were unnecessary in the context of Trek as a franchise, but that this particular Borg story did absolutely nothing to either contribute to the scope of the Borg themselves, nor did it accomplish what the original Borg stories were intended for: to make a statement about humanity and its place in the universe. When they first appeared, the Borg were like a force of nature, meant to humble humanity and make them reevaluate both their goals and their arrogant self-assuredness. Later, the Borg provided a skewed mirror upon humanity (even in their appearances in VOY), putting to question the things that made us human: individuality, emotions, dreams and goals.

    "Regeneration," on the other hand, reduced the Borg potential to little more than a romp, a rollercoaster ride for Archer and his crew, and worse, it was yet another easy victory that seemed intended to refute the claims that Archer and Co. are ineffective and weak. Their victory in this episode didn't so much develop them as characters as it merely turned to break the fourth wall and say directly to the audience, "See? These guys are heroes," without really allowing them to be heroes.

    The Borg were, IMHO, window-dressing, nothing more. I can't honestly understand what about this story made it a "must-film." There surely must be so many other stories that can be told, stories that don't depend upon ratings stunts, or name-dropping, truly "must-film" stories that will so intensely affect and develop these characters and this time so that ENT becomes a real Star Trek series, and not just skewed reference material to all of the other series.

    MikeSussman, both you and DavidAGoodman have demonstrated that the audience, not just the rabid fans, have your attention to a certain extent, and you both have shown evidence that you're as much fans of the concept as many of us. I hope that we can see ENT become the sort of series that anyone, fan and non-fan alike, can point to as an example of good drama, not just good Star Trek, and that it doesn't, in the end, become known merely for its unwillingness to stand on its own, to never have been more than a mirror of real greatness and ground-breaking drama and adventure. I still give all the ENT writers some benefit of the doubt, insofar as the publicized level of rewriting and homogenization at the hands of the executive producers has made it seem that they either have little appreciation for the efforts of the writers or little room to allow ideas beyond a narrowly-defined "marketing-biased" approach to the stories. The initial ideas, however, have to come from somewhere; it would be great if the majority of those initial ideas didn't start with, "You know what would be really 'kewl'? If we could bring in [insert registered trademark here] from TNG/VOY and have Archer and Co. drop a couple lines that will point to the things coming down the line ..."

    Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussion, and to exhibit a great deal of both understanding and humor. We bitch ... because we care ;).
     
  9. wolf359

    wolf359 Captain Captain

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    all good points, but if you look at the ratings as a graph then you have a sudden drop after "broken bow" (to be expected, people will watch to see if they like it or not) but then instead of a straight line or an upward graph of a successful show you have a steady downward trend. this means that more and more people are turning off every week. sure you'll have peaks amongst this for hyped episodes. but the trend is steadily downwards. so i can't see how you think ENT is "perfectly fine"

    if a companies stock followed that line then they'd be looking for a new CEO

    as for ET landing then yep that would spark interest all right, but then we'd have them saying that andorians don't have antennae and are red not blue :)
     
  10. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    Dude, you can say "it ain't canon" all you want, until the Borg do come, as a matter of fact, but the truth is if it appears on a movie screen or a television screen, it is canon. Paramount has the only say with what is canon, not you, not me, not anyone on these boards (with the exception of Mike and company, and they can be overridden).

    That seems pretty plain and easy to understand.
     
  11. KIRK1ADM

    KIRK1ADM Admiral Admiral

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    You make a good point there.
     
  12. KIRK1ADM

    KIRK1ADM Admiral Admiral

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    He can't do that. He's too busy calling me names.
     
  13. renecharbonneau1

    renecharbonneau1 Captain Captain

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    Since you didn't see the episode, you're not qualified to make the rest of the statements you made.
     
  14. Joby

    Joby Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As I read through this thread, I find Mike Sussman's self-depricating jokes to be VERY ANNOYING.

    He's like one of those people that keep saying, "and I love you too...", after you just got through telling them how fucked up you think they are and how they need to change and start doing things better.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, think about what would go on if he didn't suffer our shit with a smile.
     
  16. Guest

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    Once again you nail it. Thank you. :)
     
  17. KIRK1ADM

    KIRK1ADM Admiral Admiral

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    I am truly beginning to appreciate Mike's posts. He demonstrates that he has a good sense of humor, doesn't take things way to seriously, and especially is not taking many of the comments that have been personally.

    I have great respect for any individual is able to do that especially in light of an incredibly contraversial subject as the Regeneration episode.

    Mike thanks!! :)
     
  18. emily_reich

    emily_reich Commodore Commodore

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    Here, here!!
     
  19. KIRK1ADM

    KIRK1ADM Admiral Admiral

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    Wow something that we agree on? Is the Earth coming to an end or something? ;) :lol:
     
  20. emily_reich

    emily_reich Commodore Commodore

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    maybe someone's pig has sprouted wings....
     
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