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Susan Foreman question

Gotham Central

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So I've been watching the very first season of Doctor Who on Dailymotion, and I'm kind of baffled by Susan Foreman.

Was she REALLY the Doctor's granddaughter? Was she a Time Lord? She certainly does not act like one. Why exactly was she attending the Coal Hill School in the first place? She and The Doctor obviously stayed there long enough for her to get noticed. If she were indeed a Time Lord, why would he enroll her in school on Earth?

The thing that suggests to me that she is not really related to him and thus not likely to be a Time Lord is the fact that he sort of unceremoniously leaves her behind on a post apocalypic Earth to live out her days with an ordinary human.

One of the things that I've noticed about the early episodes is that it is not entirely clear that the Doctor is supposed to be an alien.
 
That's because regeneration and all that were not invented yet. Maybe Susan is half human. Plus in the 96 film, it was said that the doctor himself is half human (which some fans choose to ignore, but I like the idea. I like humanizing him), so if he mated with another human, it would mean Susan is only one quarter of a timelord, and is far more human than timelord. And if only a quarter of her is timelord, is that enough for her to regenerate?

Or she's just adopted?
 
In the Five Doctors she knew she was in the Death Zone on Gallifrey indicating she knows Gallifrey pretty well. There are many indications she is not human (or a contemporary human anyways) during her time on the show.
 
First off, The first Doctor couldn't control his TARDIS. They found a place (Earth in the 1950s/1960s) that they settled down in for awhile. Susan being in school, was most likely a Socialization thing, since she was so much smarter than everyone else. He couldn't just buzz her back to Gallifrey though, because he couldn't control the TARDIS, until mid-late in the 3rd Doctor's reign, and even then he wasn't always great at controlling it.

Even if she was 1/4 Time Lady and 3/4 Human, I see no reason to think she wouldn't be able to Regenerate. River has no Time Lord blood in her, she got it from travelling through the Time Vortex during conception/gestation.

Susan chose to stay behind with her Human boyfriend, she was old enough to make her own choices and live her own life.
 
Plus in the 96 film, it was said that the doctor himself is half human (which some fans choose to ignore, but I like the idea. I like humanizing him),

Which is a notion I've always found silly. What's the point of making the Doctor an alien if you are just going to "humanize" him?

Was she REALLY the Doctor's granddaughter?

There is nothing in the series to suggest otherwise.
 
I always thought it would be interesting if Matt Smith's doctor ran into and old man and after a few awkward moments of uncomfortable recognition the man stammers out a "Hello, Dad..." and the Doctor stammers back, "...Son."
"Been awhile..."
"Yes, yes.. So, how...'ve you been?"
"Good, good..."
"How's your Mum?"
"Dead! Broke her heart when her grand-daughter never came home! Oh, but you probably wouldn't know anything about that would you! No! Too much of a bore being saddled with a family when you could be out traipsing in all time and space! But to bring Susan along and never once letting us know where she was or when she'd be back let alone she was safe! Too much of a bother for you? Too much trouble? Where is she, DOCTOR! Where is your grand-daughter? Where is my daughter!"
 
Was she REALLY the Doctor's granddaughter? Was she a Time Lord?

In the most recent new episode, "The Name of the Doctor," we see a shot (created by Forrest Gump-style blending of old and new footage) of the First Doctor and Susan on Gallifrey, about to steal the TARDIS. That makes it definitive that she was with him from the beginning of his journey, and thus was presumably a Time Lady (not Lord, that's male) of Gallifreyan origin.


She and The Doctor obviously stayed there long enough for her to get noticed. If she were indeed a Time Lord, why would he enroll her in school on Earth?

Because she wanted it. She enjoyed the opportunity to go native and attend school. It was probably the first time since leaving home that she'd gotten to spend time with other young people (although she was probably chronologically much older than her classmates).


The thing that suggests to me that she is not really related to him and thus not likely to be a Time Lord is the fact that he sort of unceremoniously leaves her behind on a post apocalypic Earth to live out her days with an ordinary human.

I think that's misunderstanding his decision to give his granddaughter a chance for happiness with the man she's fallen in love with -- to let her leave the nest even though he'll miss her terribly. And it's hardly "unceremonious" -- few companions have ever gotten a more beautiful, touching sendoff than the Doctor's wonderful farewell speech to Susan.


One of the things that I've noticed about the early episodes is that it is not entirely clear that the Doctor is supposed to be an alien.

That's true. There were several instances when the First Doctor referred to himself as human, at least indirectly. It wasn't until the Second Doctor's era that he was explicitly established as an alien, and I don't think it was until the Third Doctor's debut that he was established as having two hearts. (There's a Hartnell episode where he's at least implicitly treated as having only a single heartbeat, though it's ambiguous.)


Which is a notion I've always found silly. What's the point of making the Doctor an alien if you are just going to "humanize" him?

One thing I liked about the movie's "half-human" retcon is that it explained why, out of all the gazillions of sentient species in the universe, the Doctor had chosen ours as his special fixation. I mean, it's pretty ethnocentric to assume that we're the only species in the universe with enough admirable qualities to capture the Doctor's affection to such a great degree. It makes sense that there should be a reason for the connection between him and us.

Although, granted, the retcon created more problems than it solved. And it did kind of domesticate the Doctor a little. Given that the intent of the pilot movie was to reintroduce the series to a new, largely American audience, maybe there were fears that said audience would be less able to identify with the lead if he were purely alien. But having him be an alien with unpredictable behaviors and allegiances helps make him interesting -- and it gives him the kind of detachment from us that lets him occasionally side with the aliens against their human oppressors.
 
Which is a notion I've always found silly. What's the point of making the Doctor an alien if you are just going to "humanize" him?

One thing I liked about the movie's "half-human" retcon is that it explained why, out of all the gazillions of sentient species in the universe, the Doctor had chosen ours as his special fixation.

That is true and its one of the things I did like about the "half-human" retcon. And, to be honest, I'm not opposed to it. I just don't agree that the Doctor needs to be "humanized" somehow. I do recall watching the TV Movie and when the 1/2 human thing came up thinking "Ahh that's why he likes Earth so much..."
 
Does anyone else think she was the lady in The End of Time? After the "To The End" audio story, I think its feasible to assume that - IMO, of course.
 
I like John Peel's idea (in War of the Daleks) that Susan is responsible for

the Master looking like a burnt cookie in "The Deadly Assassin" and "Keeper of Traken".
 
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Does anyone else think she was the lady in The End of Time? After the "To The End" audio story, I think its feasible to assume that - IMO, of course.

I like to think it was, although RTD's pretty much said that from his perspective it was the Doctor's mum...
 
Does anyone else think she was the lady in The End of Time? After the "To The End" audio story, I think its feasible to assume that - IMO, of course.

Lonemagpie made a pretty convincing argument for the Lady in White as Susan here on this board when "The End of Time" aired. If you dug through the search function, you could probably find it. Part of the argument was the parallelism between Wilf and Donna on one hand and the Doctor and the Woman in White on the other.

I know RTD intended the character to be the Doctor's mother, but Claire Bloom isn't how I imagined Penelope Gate at all. :)
 
Was she REALLY the Doctor's granddaughter? Was she a Time Lord?

In the most recent new episode, "The Name of the Doctor," we see a shot (created by Forrest Gump-style blending of old and new footage) of the First Doctor and Susan on Gallifrey, about to steal the TARDIS. That makes it definitive that she was with him from the beginning of his journey, and thus was presumably a Time Lady (not Lord, that's male) of Gallifreyan origin.

How do you know that's Susan? The actress is taller than the Doctor for one thing. Carole wasn't.
 
Seems reasonable that he'd drop her off. He wanted her to grow up in a safe, secure world that didn't involve having her life put in danger on a regular basis. He was just beign a responsible guardian.
 
Seems reasonable that he'd drop her off. He wanted her to grow up in a safe, secure world that didn't involve having her life put in danger on a regular basis. He was just beign a responsible guardian.

First, She was 16!

Second, he left Susan on a highly irradiated plague ridden environment which had had all it's tech and infrastructure nuked for the last ten years plus, and the people's soul fractured by slavery. There was every chance that man was about to fall into barbarism.

Third, her boyfriend, even if they married probably only had ten years of life left to him if he was lucky because of the plagues (The Daleks used to soften up planets before they put boots on the ground... Balls on the ground?) and radiation and total absence of a national health service.

...

There was a Companion Chronicle a few years ago where Carole Anne was giggly about how stodgy Ian and Barbara were while treating her like a child when she was actually twice as old as their ages put together.

Rarewolf, it's more than a possibility that Susan has many regenerations left over that she could be much taller or shorter the next we see her on TV or even the last time we saw her on Tv in the End of Time. You would think that when the 5th Doctor started dying of radiation, he might have finally wondered what the radiation levels on Earth were after the Dalek Invasion?
 
How do you know that's Susan? The actress is taller than the Doctor for one thing. Carole wasn't.

Granted, we don't see her face, but the double does not look taller to me. And while maybe it's not absolute proof, it's obvious who it was meant to be.

We know from "The Tomb of the Cybermen," "The Empty Child," and others that the Doctor had children, so there's no reason to question that he had at least one grandchild as well. Honestly I don't understand the impetus for believing that he and Susan were lying about their relationship (unless you're going by the Virgin Novel/Cartmel Master Plan continuity where Gallifreyans were "loomed" rather than born). We know that Susan was more than an ordinary human; "The Sensorites" established that she was telepathic, which is a known Gallifreyan trait. Her extreme reaction to the TARDIS's distress in "The Edge of Destruction" is also consistent with her having a closer connection to it than the human companions.
 
Second, he left Susan on a highly irradiated plague ridden environment which had had all it's tech and infrastructure nuked for the last ten years plus, and the people's soul fractured by slavery. There was every chance that man was about to fall into barbarism.

Third, her boyfriend, even if they married probably only had ten years of life left to him if he was lucky because of the plagues (The Daleks used to soften up planets before they put boots on the ground... Balls on the ground?) and radiation and total absence of a national health service.

...

There was a Companion Chronicle a few years ago where Carole Anne was giggle about how stodgey Ian and barabara were while treating her like a child when she was actually twice as old as their ages put together.

Rarewolf, it's more than a possibility that Susan has many regenerations left over that she could be much taller or shorter the next we see her on TV. You would think that when the 5th Doctor started dying of radiation, he might have finally wondered what the radiation levels on Earth were after the Dalek Invasion?

Also, since Susan will regenerate, she will outlive her husband even if the man lives a full life. This is also true with Leela and Andred, though in the opposite direction (Andred will outlive Leela).
 
How do you know that's Susan? The actress is taller than the Doctor for one thing. Carole wasn't.

Granted, we don't see her face, but the double does not look taller to me. And while maybe it's not absolute proof, it's obvious who it was meant to be.

Quite right, I should have said the actress is the same height as her Doctor, whereas Ford was shorter than Hartnell. http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/...ild_pilot.jpg/300px-Unearthly_Child_pilot.jpg

I do agree though its probably Susan. But you never know...
 
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