Spoilers Survivors of the Flux grade and discussion thread

[David cgc]

The thing to remember with all the UNIT fuckups here is that this wasn't UNIT's actual history- this is the Grand Serpent right now altering their history to give the Sontarans a victory. So the fact that it's all wrong is, well, the entire point of that.

Except the Serpent firing Kate seemed to be the backstory to UNIT being out-of-service during "Resolution" a few years ago, but I guess when you're talking about changing history, you can draw the line anywhere you like between "unaltered" and "altered" in the absence of an explicit statement. Though how UNIT being shut down as a weird Brexit joke in 2017 squares with the Serpent still being in-charge in 2021, and UNIT still having control of the world's entire nuclear arsenal, I can't tell you.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Well now I'm just more confused. Wasn't Lethbridge-Stewart the corporal off screen when the general was talking to snake guy?

Yeah, the General was some other earlier commander. (In the "real" timeline, whatever that is nowadays, UNIT was formed in 1968 as a response to the Great Intelligence's attack on London via the Tube network. The Grand Serpent went back a decade earlier to start it, and totally change its history.)

 

[Commander Troi]

You're not confused - Commander Troi misunderstood you. The General CultCross meant is the guy Prentis schmoozed up to at the shooting event in order to wangle a UNIT advisory role (the credits have him listed as "General Farquhar"). No, we haven't seen him before, as this is pre-UNIT as we knew it.

Whoops! Sorry about that!

 

[Mr Awe]

Apologies for the off-topic mini-rant but I'm fed up with seeing this fucking stupid word. The sooner it goes the way of the dinosaurs the better.

Ah, so you're a "hater" hater!

Sorry. I'll show myself out!

 

[Mr Awe]

My prediction is that the Doctor won't get her memories back but we will get to see her origin as envisaged by Chibnall. At the moment, another rebooted universe also seems likely as in "The Big Bang" - so basically, a reset button - although River Song doesn't get conceived soon after this one.

Well, we know that Tecteun/Divison was planning to seed the next universe with selected parts of the current universe. I'm guessing that the Doctor will use Division technology to recreate the current universe. Since quantum mechanics has been a thing with the Angels and the fob watch, I'll assume the current universe will be recreated down to the quantum level.

Basically, all the parts are there for it to happen. I suppose it might be different than a reboot in that perhaps it'll be reshaping a new universe to be like the current one. Basically, ST's Genesis Project applied a universe rather than a planet. Let's hope they scouted out universes for an uninhabited one if they go that route!

 

[Tomalak]

Well, I'm not at all enthused about Davies returning and the Tennant era is probably my least favourite, ever (for the record, I'm Australian and have been a Who fan for decades. That's neither here nor there, of course).

I'm in the minority on both points and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Each to their own. What does bother me is how poor the writing and characterisation has been for so much of new Who, not just the Chibnall era. The current era has probably been the worst of new Who, though, and as I mentioned upthread that's been a great disservice to Whittaker in particular. So unless the writing and characterisation improve sharply I very likely will stop watching (as I did for much of the Davies / Tennant era), but I also know I'll give it a go first.

Right, I can understand that. Basically you've never enjoyed the new series very much, don't enjoy it now and if it doesn't improve that'll be the last straw.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It certainly would have made more sense if it was Cpl. Benton, as he was a Corporal during the Troughton era UNIT stories and a Sgt. by the Pertwee era.

Jumping from Corporal to Brigadier in those relatively few years is a bit quick.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm so looking forward to the next hour of solid exposition. This series needs an enema...

Really, the swings from utter childishness to bafflingly tedious complexity are giving me cerebral whiplash. I should sue.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I thought it was super-stupid that the general at the shooting event wouldn't have been suspicious of Craig Parkinson's character, and instead embraced the amazing coincidence as a stroke of good luck.

 

[diankra]

Well crap. There goes my theory. I guess I didn't hear him say Lethbridge-Stewart. That's a real mess up.. Even if this was the 50s, no way he'd be a brigadier by the late 60s. I guess he could have chosen to go to officer's school, but still.

Problem is that L-S's promotion to Brigadier was always a bit odd: too young, but you could finesse it by saying that when UK UNIT was set up after Web the international agreement specified a size for it that meant the CO should be a Brig, even though the obvious candidate was only a young colonel. Hence he didn't then get promoted again.
But this episode messes that up, and until a change this week a corporal who got officer training topped out at Lt-Col.
But that's reality, in Who Britain made Mars landings decades ago, so...

 

[StarMan]

For the life of me, I can't remember what Yaz and co. were meant to be doing. There was an Indiana Jones scene w/ a cup, a jovial Hermit, The Great Wall w/ a call back to "hello sweetie", on and off The Titanic a few times, Beards! No beards! And finally Liverpool tunnels!

BTW, the above is not an invitation to explain it to me.

It does feel like in order to get some resolution by next episode, we're in for another big infodump. Still not sure who The Swarm and co are; Division's motivations for wiping out The Universe are ... odd. Look, I can respect Davros wanting to nuke the multiverse w/ a Reality Bomb - he's bat shit crazy. It's fun! It's his thing. Is it because of The Doctor they're destroying The Universe? Weren/t Division tasked with protecting it?

It's all right mess isn't it? Hats off to all involved if they pull off a decent finale - I need a serious curveball to light me up at this juncture.

 

[diankra]

Well now I'm just more confused. Wasn't Lethbridge-Stewart the corporal off screen when the general was talking to snake guy?

Yes. It's a silly mistake that even a non-military type should have caught.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

on and off The Titanic a few times

That would be difficult as the RMS Titanic sank on its maiden voyage across the Atlantic in 1912. It also had four funnels, not three. The ship depicted in the episode was the RMS Queen Mary, apparently, which didn't start operating until 1936.

IIRC, DW has never done a Titanic story on screen if we don't count Voyage of the Damned. John Hart and Jack Harkness were on board according to one of the Torchwood audio stories. The Time Machine travellers Doug Phillips and Tony Newman were apparently also on board but didn't get it on like the other two.

 

[diankra]

That would be difficult as the RMS Titanic sank on its maiden voyage across the Atlantic in 1912. It also had four funnels, not three. The ship depicted in the episode was the RMS Queen Mary, apparently, which didn't start operating until 1936.

IIRC, DW has never done a Titanic story on screen if we don't count Voyage of the Damned. John Hart and Jack Harkness were on board according to one of the Torchwood audio stories. The Time Machine travellers Doug Phillips and Tony Newman were apparently also on board but didn't get it on like the other two.

In the books, Left Handed Hummingbird.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Definitely still interesting and entertaining for me but I was surprised when I realized it was already episode 5. Pacing of the episodes had been odd and I'm not fully sure what's going on anymore but it's all very pretty, and the companion B-story is fun enough.

But did anyone else laugh at the Mother's explanation about the Division? A super secret covert ops section that does all the unethical secret stuff and interfering with societies, which is totally against the highest Timelord "directive" of non-interference? Might one call it a prime directive? Section 31 and the DTI in one diabolical package.

 

[diankra]

Definitely still interesting and entertaining for me but I was surprised when I realized it was already episode 5. Pacing of the episodes had been odd and I'm not fully sure what's going on anymore but it's all very pretty, and the companion B-story is fun enough.

But did anyone else laugh at the Mother's explanation about the Division? A super secret covert ops section that does all the unethical secret stuff and interfering with societies, which is totally against the highest Timelord "directive" of non-interference? Might one call it a prime directive? Section 31 and the DTI in one diabolical package.

The Time Lords have long been presented as hypocrites so far as intervening with other worlds. The CIA in Tom stories, the Special Executive in Alan Moore's strip stories. Division is in that tradition.

 

[diankra]

Yeah, the General was some other earlier commander. (In the "real" timeline, whatever that is nowadays, UNIT was formed in 1968 as a response to the Great Intelligence's attack on London via the Tube network. The Grand Serpent went back a decade earlier to start it, and totally change its history.)

Or in 1977. UNIT dating is a classic example of how canon can be contradictory.

 

[diankra]

Or in 1977. UNIT dating is a classic example of how canon can be contradictory.

FWIW, the Web of fear is 'more than 40 years' after Abominable Snowmen, which is stated to be 1935, so January 76 at earliest. Invasion is almost four years later, so late 79 (though Radio Times said 1975), meaning the Pertwee stories were in the 80s.
But in Pyramids of Mars Sarah Jane Smith says "I'm from 1980." That might be her first meeting with the Doctor, or her last visit to modern day Earth.
Then in Mawdryn Undead, the Brigadier has been retired for a year in 77.
And the modern series (mainly SJA) quoted dates that go for an early date. And now...
Basically, it's all canon, but not consistent.

 

[Orac Zen]

Sorry. I'll show myself out!

So you should.

Basically you've never enjoyed the new series very much, don't enjoy it now and if it doesn't improve that'll be the last straw.

Well, no. I enjoyed the hell out of the vast majority of the Smith era (he's by a very considerable distance my favourite new Who Doctor), and now I've had the chance to revisit the Capaldi era I'm liking it a lot more than I did the first time around. That hardly means the Moffat era was flawless, though - it was the era during which the new series completely disappeared up its own mythos and it became increasingly difficult to keep track of pretty much everything that happened to everyone. (Well, it did for me, anyway.)

But I liked Moffat Who much, much, much more than Davies Who or Chibnall Who, to put it very kindly. So a return to Davies does not appeal to me. I get why others are so enthusiastic about it but I can't get on board with it. To each their own.

 

[Evil Robert]

My biggest dread at the moment is Chibnal has no idea what memories are in the fobwatch and there will be no answer to that storyline.

Ala the Doctor sacrificing her memories to save the universe being the most likely narrative.

That'll piss me right off honestly. Its crappy story telling at its worst (like X-Files/Lost/That blasted women in "The End of Time").

Using the excuse of "leaving it up to the viewers imagination" is a big bugbear of mine. I'm here too have a conclusion to the questions you raised. Not do my own mental gymnastics to make up for your crappy writing.

As terrible as Moffat was at endings, at least the poor dear tried ar least attempted to answer all questions! Lol

So end my rant hahaha