Spoilers Survivors of the Flux grade and discussion thread

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by The Nth Doctor, Nov 27, 2021.

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How do you rate Survivors of the Flux?

  1. Brilliant!

    11.4%
  2. 9

    4.5%
  3. 8

    31.8%
  4. 7

    15.9%
  5. 6

    4.5%
  6. 5

    18.2%
  7. 4

    2.3%
  8. 3

    2.3%
  9. 2

    4.5%
  10. Rubbish!

    4.5%
  1. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, was just kidding. Last we saw her was with the WA when the Doctor got weeping-angeled. I thnk.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  2. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm in the camp of not being very impressed by any of Chibnall's work on DW. Some of it is passably good but much of it varies from awful and unforgettable to mediocre and forgettable. I have no problem with the casting - the actors are doing their best with what they've been given - especially Jodie. This season is a hot mess that even Christopher Nolan would struggle to untangle.
     
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  3. Orac Zen

    Orac Zen Mischief Manager Super Moderator

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    While I generally liked the "Adventures In 1904" bits of the episode, the giant message at the Great Wall was just ridiculous. If it was supposed to be some sort of callback to River's "Hello, Sweetie", it failed (for this viewer, at least). How nice that Karvanista / his ship monitors everything everywhere (or something) and detected the message from wherever whenever in space. Contrived and ridiculous.

    I meant to mention in my earlier post that at this point I'm fed up with Swarm and Azure. They're coming across as evil for evil's sake rather than anything interesting.

    Definitely. There wasn't anywhere near enough going on.

    Exactly, hence my rapidly diminishing enthusiasm. Not that it had been particularly great in the first place, but the fact it appears the Timeless Child stuff is going to be something so generic and bland isn't impressive.

    That scene was another of the very few good bits of the episode. Really liked that Kate worked it all out, and I did actually think to myself "she's doomed" as she approached her house. I wouldn't call myself a fan of the character (I'm basically indifferent to her) but I wouldn't have been impressed if she'd been killed off as a subplot among the ep's zillion other subplots.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  4. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    At first, I was going to say that no, I'm not a Timeless Child hater, but maybe I am. At least a Timeless Child strongly disliker! But for good reasons! It makes the Doctor less interesting, diminishes what we've seen since the classic series, and so on. I just don't like it.

    However, I'm not convinced (and, I'll admit, this might be wishful thinking) that it's absolutely confirmed that the Doctor is the Timeless Child. When the Doctor asked if what the Master her told her was true, there was a definite beat before Tecteun said "yes."

    I still think it makes so much more sense for the Master to be the Timeless Child. It makes his character more interesting. It fits with what we know about the Master. He has a hard time dying! The experimentation and manipulation can explain his evilness. Additionally, the Doctor's struggles against the Master become more interesting if he is some immortal super being while she's a regular old Time Lord.

    In short, I'm still hoping that the Master was mistaken and Tecteun lied about the Doctor being the Timeless Child. Afterall, the Doctor didn't recognize Tecteun until she was told.

    I'm wondering if the Spring and/or Fall special will relate to Division? Flux might be wrapped up but I doubt Division will be.

    The aggravating thing about Yax and co's journey was that it was ultimately a pointless waste of screentime. The Great Wall seems symbolic of that. A message that in the unlikely event of being read is useless. None of their journeys contributed to the solution. It was just the encounter with the tunnel guy that led them back to Liverpool, and they're now presumably prisoners of the Sontarans.

    That is kind of consistent. I don't mind so much if Jo Martin is a pre-Hartnell incarnation. Maybe immediately before Hartnell. So, if we had Jo being the original Doctor as an operative for Division, getting mind wiped and released, and then we pick up the adventures with Hartnell, that works.

    However, having this whole Timeless Child's super-special, immortal status, the basis for Time Lords as we know them, and having untold numbers of incarnations before Hartnell is the part that I don't like.

    Of course, YMMV!

    I keep thinking the Master has got to make an appearance. I would not be surprised at all if he's in the next episode. I'm just trying to figure out how. I keep hoping the TC explains his backstory rather than the Doctor's. I also think he must've been one of the others on the Temple of Atropos raid but his identity was obscured by one of the other's faces. Maybe Vinder--as he could be the Master's father. We'll see.

    I have to agree about generic characters. Bel and Vinder. Not sure whose parents they'll end up being. But Tecteun seems to be the Doctor's adoptive mother. And their meeting had huge potential. But it fell flat. A few fireworks but it was quickly done. Chibnall should've cutback on the 1904 hijinks and devote more time to the Tecteun part of the story. Although, if it just meant more exposition, maybe not!

    There was a real potential there that was thoroughly wasted. Unless, of course, the Doctor isn't the Timeless Child. ;)

    I think if I was a new Whovian, I might question sticking with it. If you haven't, you should catch up with the rest of the modern series (at least) as it is mostly really good. Chibnall's era is the low point of the modern series.
     
  5. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding the barking corporal, I bet he's talking about Benton, who was a sergeant during the Pertwee era, so very likely a corporal during this time period.
     
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  6. matthunter

    matthunter Admiral Admiral

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    Except we clearly hear the corporal say "Lethbridge-Stewart here, I want a call to the RAF please".
     
  7. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it seems to be yet another cockup in the old script department.
     
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  8. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    Well, where to start?...

    That threw me out of the story a bit, though I guess they saved all their money between 1901 and 1904.

    Quite the oposite for me.

    My thought was a previous regeneration.

    Me too, me too.

    So, the Chibbers' MasterPlod nears it semi-tumescence (nowhere near climax). Don't like the whole TC thing in any shape or form. Don't like the way this hack is determined to put his stamp on the series. Don't like where Flux is going, and how it's going to turn out, probably a rebooted universe of some kind. Don't like the infodumps where the Doctor can only stand around gawping. It's... just... woeful.

    The actors as usual knock out of the park whatever they have to work with. But the story, the arc, the characterisation, all the writer's responsibility, leaves me cold. No emotional investment. I will be glad when Chibbers' tenure is over. Whether I'll continue to watch, i'm not sure.

    Speaking of which, is there a viewing schedule for 2022 yet?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
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  9. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is the part that doesn't sit well with me. Same as when Cartmel wanted the Doctor to be one of the founders of Time Lord society back in the eighties.

    But is the Timeless Child actually super special, or just from another universe where this is commonplace? I guess we'll find out sooner or later!

    I'm honestly not bothered by the previous incarnations thing. It doesn't make any difference to the character to me, because what's important is that the Doctor believes they began with the First Doctor, and that's how we've seen their personality form over the years.

    I'm a bit worried about that pocket watch though. I'd rather the Doctor didn't get her memories back - keep them where they should be, vague and open for future writers to explore, should they wish.
     
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  10. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    That's actually a nice way of framing the whole Timeless Child business, even if we don't like it.

    But like you said, we don't really need this explanation.

    I wouldn't call myself a hater of the whole thing (and what a dumb, asinine thing to say to people collectively :rolleyes:), rather I would say that I'm still waiting to see how this all plays out after Chibnall is done (since we know when that end date will be) before I judge it on its full merits.

    But it's not going well, I agree.

    Yup, the moment Dan mentioned they had been at this whole thing for three years, I immediately thought what Big Finish would do with that gap! :D

    More adventures of Yaz, Dan, and Jericho please!
     
  11. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    Overall a 7 but really thee episodes feel like small very disjointed movies directed by someone on acid.

    I can follow the story but really they do jump around a lot. I love Yaz. Jodie is good too. What's the deal with the two baddies? Division sucks.
     
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  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, exactly.
     
  13. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Germany, Earth, the Solar System
    Did anyone catch how Swarm said, they are time and the others were space?
    He implies that time and space are natural opposites of each other and should be incompatible.
    He claims time’s dominion over space.
    I don’t think they are a literal manifestation of time, though.
    And one wonders of there is a third party representing relative dimensions or something…
     
  14. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sigh . . . I imagine we will. But, whether or not the TC was super special in its own universe, it clearly is in ours! It's like Superman on his home planet vs. Earth.

    I can live with previous incarnations. Particularly, if that was the only thing. Like I was saying, it's the other aspects of the TC that bothers me.

    I don't think she'll get her memories back. Or at least not the majority. I've got two theories about the watch and it depends on what happens.

    If, as I'm still hoping, the TC actually becomes the Master, then it's not the Doctor's memories. That could be a plot twist. In this scenario, Jo Martin could still be a pre-Hartnell incarnation of the Doctor with erased memories but they'd be separate from the TC.

    However, if the TC becomes the Doctor, I'd guess that the watch will need to be sacrificed for some reason before the Doctor retains her memories. It's Time Lord technology that works at the quantum level. Perhaps it'll be adapted to reboot the universe . . . or something. At any rate, something will happen to prevent the Doctor from regaining all her memories.
     
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  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yet again, the sound mix finds ways to come across as amateurish, with the music and sound FX overwhelming dialog. Horrible, horrible mix.
     
  16. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeash enough with adding more villains already, especially since the two big bads for this are working well enough when they get to do things.
     
  17. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Benton is a corporal on his first appearance in The Invasion, but the dialogue refers to Lethbridge-Stewart (who wouldn't use his surname alone unless he was an officer).
     
  18. CuriousCaitian

    CuriousCaitian Commander Red Shirt

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    I was swept along by it decently enough, and intially gave it a high mark as a result, but the more I think about it the less satisfying it feels. As has been discussed in detail in this thread, many bad Chibnall habits came back in force, from conveniently glossed over plot details to exposition marathons that aren't nearly as dramatic and twisty as the epic musical stings try to make out. It's just...hollow.

    The main issues here are twofold. One, someone really needs to get through to Chibnall that finding something out is usually more effective than being told, and if you have to tell, make it short and sharp. Two, none of the characters are growing in the slightest, they're just static elements being moved by the plot. After all the build, most of the momentum has gone, deflated by an episode that does a lot, yet achieves little.

    Certainly most of my enthusiasm has died. I just can't see, given all the threads, and all the questions still hanging, and the unengaging, too familiar narrative elements at play, how this could possibly all tie up in a rewarding fashion. It'll be Big, and superficially enjoyable, but barring some spectacular final twist Flux seems destined to disappoint. So frustrating.
     
  19. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The irritating thing is that, while the UNIT dating problem was never going to go away, the other issues wouldn't arise if the line had been "That's our new captain. Bit of a shouter, but very good. Don't expect he'll stay as a captain for long."
     
  20. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Time to found a Fairly Secret Army.