Survivor (Season 40): Winners at War

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Timewalker, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    First, you need to work on your sentiment analysis. I'm not 'outraged'. I would just be less satisfied with the outcome if she won.

    Second, Natalie was voted out first because she *wasn't* a good player. She failed to make the social connections that other players made, so she was voted out. Then, she benefited from rules that gave advantages to the people voted out earliest that other people voted out did not have. She wasn't even that good a player in her first game. She survived the early game because her sister got voted out first and then everybody was only targeting people who were still paired up, and didn't have to start playing well that season until the final six. And yes, I would be just as dissatisfied if Tony got voted out first and came back and won, are you insinuating some kind of sexism or racism in my motivations? If you dredge up the Survivor 38 thread you'll find I said the EXACT SAME THING when Chris, a white male, was voted out early and came back and won. Chris didn't deserve to win either.

    I am not attacking Natalie from making the best of the chance she had, I'm attacking the rules for giving such unfair advantages to people who were voted out earlier. Extinction island is a terrible idea, and fire tokens made it even more terrible.
     
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  2. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Extinction island and fire tokens were just mechanisms to give screen time to the players regardless where they are in the game. The only one who left was two-time winner, Sandra around mid-season, so, they were able to keep 19 all-stars on the screen for the whole season. This all seemed..."produced" and perhaps, "contractural".
     
  3. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Also if you go to the historical Survivor threads I complain every single time a man and woman are strategic partners and the man gets all the credit. I was mad Laurel didn't get any credit in 36, Tasha in 31, Aubry in 32. And I was rooting for Sophie and then would have been just as happy if Sarah or Denise won. (If Sarah won the fire making and then lost against Natalie I would have been just as annoyed).

    Yeah, they use extinction island as a way to keep their best personalities on camera for longer. But it's bad for the competitive balance of the game. It lets players who messed up early end-around the mid game and come in right at the end with an idol.
     
  4. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Given that you normally post in a very calm manner, I interpret your nonstop complaining about Natalie's almost-win - with a vibe of "how DARE she, she didn't deserve to be in the final 3!!!" as outrage.

    Which she acknowledged at the final tribal council, so it's obvious that she learned from her mistake. If she's ever asked back, I should think she would make sure not to repeat this mistake. Not all returning players learn this.

    As one of the first two boots, she also had disadvantages that the people voted out later didn't have. You need to be strong-willed to put up with Extinction for over a month. As we've seen with the pandemic, some people whine about being in their own homes for a week. They'd never be able to cope with being in a desolate place like that, doing extremely physically demanding challenges.

    So what? I'm actually glad that her sister was voted out so we didn't have to put up with 3 months of "TWINNIE!!!" like we did on The Amazing Race.

    Just anti-Natalieism, to a degree that I find over-the-top incomprehensible. So kindly don't accuse me of accusing you of sexism or racism. They never crossed my mind.

    There's a difference between not deserving a win due to being voted out early and coming back and playing well enough to win and not deserving a win due to being voted out early and coming back and winning due to others' mistakes. It's like figure skaters being in 4th place and winning gold because they skated better than anyone else (who also skated well) and winning gold because everyone else fell on their backsides more.

    I've seen both happen during the years that I've followed figure skating, and while a win is a win, how you won is important as well, at least to the people directly involved. And given Natalie's acknowledgement of her earlier mistakes, I'd say that counts over people who don't understand what went wrong and what they needed to do to fix it.

    So write to CBS. Engage Jeff Probst on Twitter or FB, and tell him what you think about it. He's a producer, so this is the kind of feedback that's important.

    But dissing one of the final 3 just because she took advantage of the rules in ways that the other players were too apathetic, lazy, cautious, or incompetent to do is not reasonable.
     
  5. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    This is a thread for discussing Survivor and you’re saying it’s not the place to discuss criticisms of the format?

    When you accused me of saying I’d react differently if it were Tony it sounded like the subtext was “Because he’s male”. Sorry if I misinterpreted, but a lot of people out there do instantly go there.

    I’m not anti-Natalie. She was the best player her first season. She benefitted from being under the radar not being paired but she played by far the best end game. This time around, she did not need to play as well as the others to get to the end because she had the most opportunities to win advantages in the final challenge.

    I am not mad at Natalie for playing the game by the rules she was given. But I don’t think she deserved to win, just like I didn’t think Chris did. If she comes back again and makes it through the mid game like everyone else I’ll be fine with her winning.
     
  6. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Oh, FFS. Stop putting words on my keyboard. My point is that it's fruitless to complain about it here, because the producers don't read these threads. If you really want a change, talk to Jeff Probst. He has the authority to make the changes you want.

    By all means, complain here. But be aware that it will do precisely nothing to help the situation.

    I spend most of my online time on a gaming forum with a 95+% population of guys. There have been months, even years, when I've been the only female regular posting in the non-game areas of that site. While there are times when I've gotten exasperated enough to post about feminism (most of the guys there just don't get it), I'm not someone who immediately goes to the worst possible scenario.

    The fact is that Natalie is a woman of color (if memory serves, she and Nadia are from Sri Lanka), and for some people, that's a double - even triple - reason to be irritated if they win. I'm glad you're not one of those people.

    Now I'm confused. You just said you don't think she played well her first season, and implied that after her sister was voted off, all she needed to do was sit back and benefit from the others picking off people who were still paired and she didn't have to step up her game until everyone left was just one half of a former pair.

    This is contradictory. If she played the game by the rules AND didn't go out of her way to piss anybody off (both of which are true), of course she deserved to win.

    Natalie is not responsible for making the rules. All she did was figure out how to use them to her advantage, and while some people in the game were pissed off, I don't see evidence that she was obnoxious about it.
     
  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Every person who has ever won Survivor deserved to win.... Period.

    As far as Winners at War goes, specifically, all 3 finalists earned their spots in various ways, but the game was never going to be won by anyone other than Tony once he defeated Sarah to get to the FTC.

    Michelle should have gotten votes like Natalie did, but Tony winning was the right call by the Jury.
     
  8. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was a great season for sure.
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Natalie played well her first season, but it was a season with no other good players. She was the best player her season, but especially for a person who lost her partner on the first day, it was a weak season.

    It's not contradictory at all. If Natalie came back the first time instead of Tyson, and she survived to the end, she would have a better argument for deserving to win. But no, people who did not play the game as it is intended, who came back at the 11th hour with an advantage, do not deserve to win. I would have supported Devens but not Chris. That 12-6 period of the game is the most interesting part of it and she got to skip it.

    I don't think every winner deserved to win. Specifically, spite vote beneficiaries didn't. Fabio didn't deserve to win. Jenna M didn't deserve to win. Amber didn't deserve to win. Any time a person who had no strategic influence over the game wins because the jury was mad at the most strategic player, they didn't deserve to win. Amber even acknowledged that, she only won because the jury was mad at Rob.

    There's a lot of women who deserved to win but didn't get credit cause their main ally was male, like Amanda twice.

    People who deserve to win are people who controlled the game, not the people who got dragged along by people the jury is mad at.
     
  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Natalie did play the game as it was intended. If she hadn't, she would have been penalized for cheating. She didn't cheat.