Survivor - General Discussion

[Toxteth O´Grady]

I'm not sure how popular this thread will be, but I wanted to go ahead and try starting it anyway.

I'm a big Survivor fan. I've been watching it on and off since the first season. Well, technically I only watched the finale, since it was pretty much the biggest thing on TV at the time (2000, 14 years ago!). But it got me interested enough to watch the next season, The Australian Outback. That's the season that got me hooked. I loved how the game worked by having two tribes with 16 castaways that are whittled down to 10 through challenges and alliances, etc. That's entertaining enough, but the meat of the season happens post-merge when it's every man for himself. I just love seeing people interacting with one another and how that affects the game.

I watched Africa and Marquesas, but left halfway through Thailand, because I didn't like most of the people on that season. I didn't come back until All-Stars and then watched up until Fiji. There are various reasons why I take breaks from the show. Most often it's because of the people playing. Other times its because my work schedule is at night and it's easy to miss the show. But from Mirconesia on I only skipped a few seasons, mostly because I HATED Russell Hantz. He and Colton are really the only two players that will make me not watch a season in the future if they return.

I'm still watching and loving the current season. I want this thread to be spoiler-free, so keep conversation about Cagayan in the season 28 thread. This will be for seasons past only.

EDIT: I noticed that the thread for the current season is mistakenly labeled Season 27.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I loved Russell Hantz. I love people who are just ruthlessly strategic. I was annoyed both times he lost in the final out of personal spite to somebody who didn't play the game hard.

Colton, on the other hand, was in no way strategic and was just bullying people for the sake of creating drama, and I never want to see him again.

I agree Thailand is by far the worst season they've ever filmed.

 

[Toxteth O´Grady]

Colton, on the other hand, was in no way strategic and was just bullying people for the sake of creating drama, and I never want to see him again.

Yeah, as much as I hated Russell, he at least made it to the finals twice.

Colton? When you convince your tribe to give up the immunity idol just so you can go to tribal to vote off somebody you don't like, you have zero clue on how to play the game. You're right, he was nothing but a bully that manipulated his tribe into doing his bidding. If he made it to the merge he likely would've been voted off right away or taken to the finals where anybody would've easily won against him.

 

[Timewalker]

I was hooked right away, back in the first season. I still giggle when I remember Greg yakking away on his coconut phone. And Susan's jury speech to Kelly and Rich? Nobody has ever managed to surpass that for bitterness!

Somebody once posted a Doctor Who Survivor fanfic, that featured some of the Companions and villains, and took place in the Death Zone on Gallifrey.

 

[Toxteth O´Grady]

I was hooked right away, back in the first season. I still giggle when I remember Greg yakking away on his coconut phone. And Susan's jury speech to Kelly and Rich? Nobody has ever managed to surpass that for bitterness!

The entire jury from All-Stars is the only one I've seen that rivals Susan's bitterness. Boston Rob left a lot of shattered relationships in his wake on his trip to the final two, and he still managed to get 3 votes!

I'm re-watching season 1 right now, actually. This past weekend I was at Half-Price Books and they had a four-pack of seasons 1, 2, 7 and 8 for only $40.00. That's kind of what caused me to create this thread. I'm looking back at past seasons on the Survivor wiki and I was getting all nostalgic.

Season 1 is a far cry from what Survivor is today. Jeff is very rusty. It feels like he's winging it. Now he has his hosting abilities so fine-tuned that he could do it in his sleep, but back then he was still getting a feel for the game. It's so bizarre hearing most of the castaways shunning alliances back then, believing it to be an unethical way of playing the game. And then they got their asses handed to them one-by-one by the alliance of Richard, Kelly, Rudy and Susan. Now alliances begin on day one and it's an essential part of the game. I don't believe you can fly solo in Survivor.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

When I first heard about Survivor I thought the idea was stupid.

Then my first episode was episode 5. I was hooked almost immediately, and I doubt there's more than a handful of episodes I've missed since, not counting recap episodes which I always skip.

I don't think Jeff is phoning it in. Just, he's gotten such a sense of the game he lasers in on exactly what he expects the narrative to be.

I remember in the first season when Stacy tried to sue the show about the way she was voted out. I didn't see her elimination until it re-aired. But it seemed to me, the producers were terrified that all the old people were going to be voted out 1 2 and 3 and that would look bad, so they tried desperately to steer the votes away from Rudy.

 

[Timewalker]

I have to admit to liking Rudy somewhat. As he pointed out regarding the immunity challenge with the cameras and clues, he didn't even bother answering - just kept saying "I don't know" and going on to the next. He knew his alliance partners wouldn't vote him off, so it didn't matter if he came in dead last.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

But it seemed to me, the producers were terrified that all the old people were going to be voted out 1 2 and 3 and that would look bad, so they tried desperately to steer the votes away from Rudy.

I think it's more likely they were worried that entertaining contestants would be voted out rather than that they had any fear of how it would look if the older contestants were voted out.

As for me, I was hooked on the show right from the start. It's had a few lesser seasons here and there, but it's maintained its spark remarkably well.

 

[Toxteth O´Grady]

I hope, I mean REALLY hope, that they never bring back Redemption Island. The first season that they had it was a complete waste of time because when Matt won the right to re-enter the game after being out of it for weeks, he was immediately voted out again. I couldn't believe that it was brought back for a third time in Blood vs. Water, because I thought the consensus among fans was that it was a terrible element to the game.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Redemption Island made for an interesting twist, albeit one that should have only been used for one or two seasons. Matt being voted straight out again was hilarious.

Hidden immunity idols were likewise an interesting twist for a while, and they provided some great moments (like when Amanda played the HI in Survivor: Micronesia), but they've worn out their welcome for me. They're at least making them more difficult to find this season. It was getting annoying when people were finding them so easily without any clues whatsoever. But I'd like to see some seasons of pure Survivor again without any of the later gimmicks.

 

[Toxteth O´Grady]

But I'd like to see some seasons of pure Survivor again without any of the later gimmicks.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. 16 new castaways, no hidden idol, no tribe swap, a final 2. They should bring Survivor back to what it was in the first two seasons at least once and see how it goes. I really don't mind adding or changing elements to make it fresh, but it'd be cool for the show to go back to its roots, if only for one season. That'd be a gimmick itself, because the contestants wouldn't be expecting it. It'd be interesting to see the castaways making plans for a hidden idol or some other popular gimmick that never shows up.

 

[dansigal]

Redemption Island made for an interesting twist, albeit one that should have only been used for one or two seasons. Matt being voted straight out again was hilarious.

Hidden immunity idols were likewise an interesting twist for a while, and they provided some great moments (like when Amanda played the HI in Survivor: Micronesia), but they've worn out their welcome for me. They're at least making them more difficult to find this season. It was getting annoying when people were finding them so easily without any clues whatsoever. But I'd like to see some seasons of pure Survivor again without any of the later gimmicks.

I thought bringing redemption island back in Blood v Water worked only because of the added twist of allowing the loved one to switch out. It added that extra dimension that gave it a bit more of a purpose. But I'd agree, i don't like RI in the normal game. I'd be ok with it in the next BvW season, whenever they do one.

As far as the HII, it will NEVER go away. Probst LOVES everything that it brings to the game. And I don't think he's wrong. Just the threat of an idol being out there adds so much depth to the game.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I thought bringing redemption island back in Blood v Water worked only because of the added twist of allowing the loved one to switch out. It added that extra dimension that gave it a bit more of a purpose. But I'd agree, i don't like RI in the normal game. I'd be ok with it in the next BvW season, whenever they do one.

On reflection, you're right. It did work well in the context of BvW.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think the only reason they brought it back for BvW was so they could get people the option to switch.

I agree that Redemption Island is a bad idea just because it wastes so much screen time, when either a reward challenge or just watching the people talk with each other about things that aren't directly related to the game would be far more fun to watch.

I do think the immunity idols are a great idea though and really force more interesting strategy discussions. They definitely revitalized the show which at the time was getting stale.

And I think tribal swaps are also a good idea just because it lowers the odds that one tribe will just knock off the other one by one. The show is at its most boring when you get six eliminations in a row that are completely predictable. The thing I don't like about tribal swaps is that it sometimes causes some people to get screwed because they end up in the minority suddenly.

What I wish they'd stop doing is having just two or three veterans and the rest new people. All new people is great, all veterans is great, but when it's just a couple veterans they just steal all the screen time and the game revolves around them.

Something I think would be interesting is if they swapped tribes every single week so they would be forced to form a relationship with everyone and change up their strategy every week.

 

[Timewalker]

I agree that Redemption Island is a bad idea just because it wastes so much screen time, when either a reward challenge or just watching the people talk with each other about things that aren't directly related to the game would be far more fun to watch.

Definitely. I remember stuff from the first season - the ukulele playing, the coconut phone, seeing them learn to fish, or using BB's glasses to start a fire... and in later seasons, some of the interesting "get to know you" kinds of conversations, people playing board games (someone brought a backgammon game for her luxury item), or just exploring the area around camp for the fun of it, not because they were idol-hunting.

Speaking of luxury items, is that even a factor anymore? It used to be a big deal - one person's choice was a pair of earrings, another brought a bible, someone else had a flag (big enough to double as a sunshade/tarp), another person had a notebook and pen so she could keep a journal of her time on the island, and so forth.

Nobody even mentions this anymore, and I recall thinking it was interesting to see what people would choose for their luxury, since it could give some clue as to what the person thought was important - if it was a vanity item, something sentimental, or something that would help in the game.

 

[Toxteth O´Grady]

I don't think the luxury items have been a factor in quite some time. I can't even remember the last time they were even mentioned.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Who do you guys think are the best players ever to play the game?

I will define 'Best' as 'Most likely to win given random other players and random tribemates, with or without them having watched you before'.

My top ten:

1. Boston Rob, obviously
2. Sandra

This one is harder to back up except for the fact that she remains the only double-winner. Some people see her as not deserving her victories, but I see her as the best defensive player at all time. She never controls strategy but she always controls her own fate, no matter who is next on the chopping block, she deflects it to somebody else and that's all she does. And if you can master that you will never lose Survivor.

3. Cochran

The only person who you can say played one of the worst Survivor games ever and one of the best Survivor games ever. The way he played the second time is like a more calculated Rob game.

4. Brian (Season 5)

He was so good at controlling everybody that it made the entire season dull and terrible.

5. Yul

Another one of those players who was just so much in control that his destiny was never really in question.

6. Parvati

I wasn't sure whether or not to include her because she plays a little too close to the razor's edge, but even doing that she's won once and threatened a second time.

7. J.T.

He won once and lost the second time in a move that in any other scenario might have been brilliant. He's one of those guys who people just want to ally with automatically.

8. Sophie (Season 23)

She managed to keep Coach under control.

9. Tyson

He made one crucial mistake in Heroes vs Villains, and if not for that mistake he would have probably been sitting next to Rob in the final.

10. Earl (Season 14)

One of those guys who was really good at the subtle strategic game and was able to pull punches without seeming like he was.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Tyson's mistake in HvV was so idiotic that he doesn't deserve a Top 10 place despite his much improved game leading to a win in his latest season.

Out of the players who have only played once so far, Kim Spradlin played an outstanding game, one worthy of placing her among the best ever. She's kind of the female counterpart to Yul.

 

[Toxteth O´Grady]

I don't know about making a top ten, because I still haven't seen every season, but Boston Rob is definitely up there. And Sandra also. I mean, you have to be doing something right to win twice!

I thought that Parvati played a great game in Micronesia. She totally deserved that win.

I haven't seen HvV yet, but I did hear that Tyson pulled a huge blunder that season that would've sent Russell home if he hadn't screwed up. Is that right?

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I haven't seen HvV yet, but I did hear that Tyson pulled a huge blunder that season that would've sent Russell home if he hadn't screwed up. Is that right?

Boston Rob set up the vote in a way that would have flushed the immunity idol and made sure that one of Russell's alliance went home. Instead Tyson himself went home because he voted for the wrong person and an immunity idol was played. And Tyson's vote wasn't even part of a high risk/high reward move that didn't work out. It was just flat out dumb.