Suppose Earth was destroyed

[-Brett-]

Two things to make clear first:

* I haven't seen Beyond yet. Use spoiler tags please.

* I posted this here because I want both realities to be explored in light of this question.

Okay. So, suppose Earth was destroyed, either as NuTrek Vulcan was, or some other way.

Given that there are many colonies remaining Humans in transit between worlds could eventually settle on, would there be as much of an effort to establish a New Earth, or would it be seen as speciesist to want to preserve and restart Human civilization's central base of operations, as it were?

Are those Humans living on other worlds for generations Human anymore, or practically aliens because they've developed sub-cultures on long established colony worlds?

Would people disperse among alien worlds and dilute to the point of being erased as other cultures absorbed them?

Would Humans care that Earth was gone (aside from having lost most of their relatives and friends). Where is home anymore?

If Star Trek was sci fi rather than space fantasy, I'd say that human is a species, not a culture. Human colonists on an extra solar planet would still be essentially human, no matter how long they're there. Cultures of human origin might go extinct under these circumstances (although that seems to have already happened in the Trekverse), but humans themselves wouldn't.

However, since Star Trek is space fantasy and not sci-fi, the humans of the Star Trek universe seem doomed whether their world is destroyed or not. They'll be absorbed through interbreeding (beause the writers haven't taken a single biology class, ever) into other species who still have their own cultures and identities and aren't silly enough and self loathing enough to be offended by the notion that the civilization they built exists to service its own people.

That's assuming they don't randomly turn into derpy looking space vampires, because that's apparently how evolution works.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

This is one thing that I thought was really refreshing about the Dominion War. I don't remember which episode said it per se, but Earth wasn't the key to the Alpha Quadrant and thus winning the war, so it was never a big target for the Dominion. The Breen only struck it as a fear tactic. But the idea of grand interstellar war that wasn't centered or dependent on Earth is still pretty unique in sci-fi in general.

Like, even if Earth fell, it would definitely hurt, but the vast majority of the fleet was in space, and we've seen capable commanders all across the brass throughout the Federation. Plus, there were also two other major space nations to depend on; indeed, for a sizeable amount of time, the Klingons alone fought the Dominion while Starfleet and the Romulans needed to regroup. There were enough contingencies and resources spread out that losing Earth wouldn't be that costly. It wasn't even the main target.

Sisko said Earth wasn't key to the alpha quadrant but then Weyoun actually was planning on attacking Earth as it would be a big moral blow to the AQ.

It seems likely if humans were scattered away from a central point they would eventually be absorbed into the galactic pool. Especially since in Star Trek human genetic traits tend to be pretty weak and half humans have more traits from the other race. Spock, K'elyhr, B'elana. A half human half Klingon is basically a self aware Klingon.

 

[Phily B]

Imagine the world if the USA was wiped off the map. There would be plenty of smaller, closer nations willing to take control but the idea is that none would be able to. That is how I see the Federation, if Earth fell it would lead to a bunch of smaller Empires.

 

[Spot261]

That's assuming they don't randomly turn into derpy looking space vampires, because that's apparently how evolution works.

No, that's just teenagers.

I think there is a distinction to be made here between being "key" in a strategic and political sense. DS9 is identified as being key to winning the war because it effectively acts as gateway to the wormhole and thus reinforcing the dominion forces in the AQ. Had that strategic objective been met the dominion would then doubtless have re-prioritised significantly.

Given the military strength to take/destroy Earth doubtless the Dominion would endeavour to do so, but at the time they were not in such a position, which made DS9 sucha valuable asset.

 

[dswynne1]

Two things. One, Earth is important because of the audience, and, two, apparently, humans are more prone towards exploration than any other spicies (not to mention that, appatently, humans tend to be kidnapped by aliens for a variety of reasons, as see in a number of episodes). So, humans as a species will survive, even if Earth is destroyed. In fact, given how advance terra-forming techniques will become, if Earth is destroyed, they'll just make a new one to replace the one destroyed (probably by getting one of the larger asteroids from the asteroid belt, core it, shaping it, and then move on from there...like the planet builders from HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY), IMO.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Maybe if Earth was destroyed they'd just move Starfleet HQ to the San Francisco of one of those duplicate Earths from TOS.

 

[nascenticity]

Maybe if Earth was destroyed they'd just move Starfleet HQ to the San Francisco of one of those duplicate Earths from TOS.

Eh I think that would violate the Prime Directive, at leas if the duplicate Earth wastn't very developed, like most of the ones we saw.

Relocating to an important colony or another important Fenderation planet would make more sense.

 

[UnknownSample]

Yes, and apparently they don't have this need of logic. To the point of being lost without it. A Vulcan without logic is said to become a murderous beast. A Romulan manages well without it.

Vulcans don't have some special "need" for logic over and above other peoples. Their point of view is that they saved themselves through logic from the violence, chaos, and mistakes other peoples like Romulans and humans still experience, though in the case of humans and other Federation plenets, they've made some progress in getting that under control themselves. Vulcans would point to the violence and plotting and coercive nature of the Romulans, and say that they certainly DO have a great need for logic.
------------------------------
I'd like the idea of an entire planet being destroyed to go back to being a ... big deal. When you can drop a bomb and destroy a planet, that gets silly, even though we know the possibility must exist. Maybe we're talking about destruction of the surface of Earth, so life can't exist. If the actual planet is destroyed, that affects the whole solar system. Gravity relationships change. Countless asteroids are created. Who knows what happens to any other settled bodies like Mars.
-----------------------
Anyway, this might be the strangest discussion of the end of the world I've ever heard.... naw, it wouldn't make all that much difference! Life goes on!

 

[The Old Mixer]

though in the case of humans and other Federation plenets, they've made some progress in getting that under control themselves.

I think you may have touched upon a reason why Vulcans didn't work so well in TNG-era Trek...humanity is upsold as being so utopian that there's nothing good for the Vulcans to contrast against. Instead of being objective observers of humanity's flaws, they just seem like they've got sticks up their asses.

 

[The Wormhole]

Eh I think that would violate the Prime Directive, at leas if the duplicate Earth wastn't very developed, like most of the ones we saw.

The Earth duplicate in Miri suffered from a severe decrease in population. I'm sure Starfleet Command could set up shop in that San Francisco and not worry about the impact on the locals, especially since said locals in this case are more interested in going "bonk-bonk on the head" than anything else.

 

[UnknownSample]

I think you may have touched upon a reason why Vulcans didn't work so well in TNG-era Trek...humanity is upsold as being so utopian that there's nothing good for the Vulcans to contrast against. Instead of being objective observers of humanity's flaws, they just seem like they've got sticks up their asses.

Yes, exactly right. Some people just don't like the idea of Vulcan know-it-alls advising humanity about what's wrong with it, some people love humanity just as it is, and I think you could probably have counted Rick Berman and those surrounding him, amongst them.

 

[Nyotarules]

The thing is that we don't know the statistics. What percentage of humankind live on earth? Is it 90 percent, 50 percent, 10 percent?

I for one was surprised, appalled even that only ten thousand Vulcans lived off world, after thousands of years of space faring!

10,000 were those who were rescued from Vulcan it did not include the colonies or those living elsewhere

 

[Nyotarules]

Using a 'real life' situation if North America sunk into the Atlantic/Pacific would the rest of humanity fall apart forever? No.

 

[Nyotarules]

But it is kind of centered around Earth. Or so it seems to be. If you live on another planet and see Earth as "just another place where stuff happens", like Earth Humans might see Tellar Prime, then maybe you don't consider it such a great loss in the scheme of things.

ST Myriad universe novel, where Spock died as a child as in Yesteryear; Kirk dies saving his son David Marcus from Klingons, the whale probe of STIV almost destroys Earth, Carol Marcus uses the Genesis device to save the planet. Klingons feel threatened by device so invade Sol and attack Earth, billions die. What is left of humanity moves to Vulcan, The Federation continues.

 

[Nyotarules]

In Trek's world, the fall of Earth means the fall of the Federation. Whether it makes sense or not. Humans somehow got Vulcans, Androians, Tellarites and others to put aside their differences and team up, despite them all being out in space for decades or centuries longer than us. Seemingly, humans invented the concept of co-operation

Another Myriad Universe novel - Terra Prime wins, all aliens leave the planet, an intergalactic coalition is created without humans. 100 years later Earth asks to join and the Coalition says 'piss off'. The End

 

[Nyotarules]

Not negligible. People don't change like that in a few generations.

A significant number of Americans are descended from the Brits. Trust me there is now a vast difference aftter 200 years

 

[USS Triumphant]

10,000 were those who were rescued from Vulcan it did not include the colonies or those living elsewhere

If that is the case, then Spock's log was strangely imprecise for him. But, I guess he was emotionally compromised, so... ???

I felt like the number had to be wrong, too, frankly - I would have thought there would be more Vulcans that that just on Earth at the moment.

Using a 'real life' situation if North America sunk into the Atlantic/Pacific would the rest of humanity fall apart forever? No.

Well, I think the question wouldn't be "would the rest of humanity fall apart forever?" but rather "would it destabilize the international community immensely?" or "would the United Nations dissolve?" and in both cases I think the answer would be yes, without a doubt, to both.

Myriad stories aren't canon, don't prove anything - they're only as valid to each of us as we think they are. I personally like your first example, and think the second is kinda bogus.

And you need to learn to use Multi-Quote. (Click +Quote below each post you want to respond to, and then go down like you're going to create a new post and choose the Insert Quotes button - that will allow you to respond in one post, rather than many consecutive posts, which are against the board rules.)

 

[Nyotarules]

^Thanks will do so in the future. As for the Spock statement in ST09, the writers if they had done their ST research would have realised that statement was a plothole for ST canon. But JJ's ST knowledge was close to minus infinity lol

 

[David Strickhouser]

Maybe if Earth was destroyed they'd just move Starfleet HQ to the San Francisco of one of those duplicate Earths from TOS.

For all we know, duplicate command HQ's would be part of Federation policy in the event of a major catastrophe.
Miri's world, the "Onlies" planet, supposedly being an exact Earth duplicate, would be perfect.
In addition, the duplicate would also have locations existing that don't exist on main Earth anymore (due to the aftermath of WWIII).

 

[USS Triumphant]

For all we know, duplicate command HQ's would be part of Federation policy in the event of a major catastrophe.
Miri's world, the "Onlies" planet, supposedly being an exact Earth duplicate, would be perfect.
In addition, the duplicate would also have locations existing that don't exist on main Earth anymore (due to the aftermath of WWIII).

It's an... interesting... thought, but a little like suggesting that that the Hard Rock Cafe in Myrtle Beach, SC, that looks like a pyramid would be a suitable replacement world historical site if the pyramids in Egypt got destroyed. I think a secondary political capital and SFC locations would be chosen based on prestige of the location and available facilities to host government and SFC, and/or possibly on security concerns if there was an ongoing threat - not on whether or not they could make it look exactly the same.