New episode tonight, good people. Preempted in Chicago, Cubs fans. It won't air until 11:30 p.m. Am I working late? Yes? Will I get a reprieve this week like last week? No. The meeting starts at 8:00 sharp. Blast it.
Supernatural5x21 "Two Minutes to Midnight"
- Thread starter Dorian Thompson
- Start date
damn that sucks as per usual. Good thing for DVR!
Well just so people know, Supernatural is moving to 9pm on Fridays starting the 28th of May. I would assume this is a permanent move.
This is a fairly wise move by the CW has SN really shares nothing with anything on Monday - Wednesday. And with SV and SN nearing their end (well one might argue past and way the hell past what should be their end) they (the CW) will need to program their new programs and try their best to survive.
Personally I am happy with this. As it really does two things. One it gives the CW the actually chance of having a night finish 4th (instead of being dead last night after night), and with lower viewership typical on Friday it increases the chance that season 6 will end the show.
While I have argued for not ending in season 5, as I want to see the characters get a chance to actually process what has happened, I don't want to see the show dragged out long past its shelf life. I will also be very curious if getting away from such a dark arc, will allow them a better balance of story telling. I suspect it might.
This is a fairly wise move by the CW has SN really shares nothing with anything on Monday - Wednesday. And with SV and SN nearing their end (well one might argue past and way the hell past what should be their end) they (the CW) will need to program their new programs and try their best to survive.
Personally I am happy with this. As it really does two things. One it gives the CW the actually chance of having a night finish 4th (instead of being dead last night after night), and with lower viewership typical on Friday it increases the chance that season 6 will end the show.
While I have argued for not ending in season 5, as I want to see the characters get a chance to actually process what has happened, I don't want to see the show dragged out long past its shelf life. I will also be very curious if getting away from such a dark arc, will allow them a better balance of story telling. I suspect it might.
I just settled down in front of the TV and found the Cubs on. Had to go to my TiVo and pad the end time of the episode by a couple of hours, in cast the Cubs game runs really late. They tend to do that when the show being pre-empted is one I really want to see.
While I have argued for not ending in season 5, as I want to see the characters get a chance to actually process what has happened, I don't want to see the show dragged out long past its shelf life. I will also be very curious if getting away from such a dark arc, will allow them a better balance of story telling. I suspect it might.[/QUOTE]
Well it happens the 28th (for at least a bit), this seasons last two episodes, tonight and next week are all we have left of original episodes.
And yes it is a death slot. But to me thats a good thing. As much as I love the show (and specifically the story of Sam and Dean for the episodes I am less pleased with...) I never, never want to see the show just go and go and go. I mean look at Smallville, thats a show that is just painful to watch. A show that has drug out the journey of Clark to Superman far longer then they really should have.
And even though both actors have said they aren't dead set for the show to end at the end of season 6, they have been vocal enough that I don't honestly think they believe the show will go any further.
And yes it is a death slot. But to me thats a good thing. As much as I love the show (and specifically the story of Sam and Dean for the episodes I am less pleased with...) I never, never want to see the show just go and go and go. I mean look at Smallville, thats a show that is just painful to watch. A show that has drug out the journey of Clark to Superman far longer then they really should have.
And even though both actors have said they aren't dead set for the show to end at the end of season 6, they have been vocal enough that I don't honestly think they believe the show will go any further.
J
Jetfire
Guest
^
The finale is next week, the season will be over so it doesn't matter if it is on Fri @ 9pm starting the May 28th.
The finale is next week, the season will be over so it doesn't matter if it is on Fri @ 9pm starting the May 28th.
^Next week is the last episode of the season, so it's only for Season 6.
Interesting for it to be moved to Fridays...it IS a death slot, but I figured season 6 was going to be the last anyway. Hopefully they don't try to kill it before it gets its last 22 episodes anyway. Then again...if Smallville's still living and getting yet ANOTHER season I think there's hope. Funny...it'll be like what Thursdays used to be with Smallville and Supernatural together again. Fridays work for me because I don't do much then anyway, and if I do go to my parent's for the weekend I can just watch it there.
Looking forward to tonight's episode...the previews sure have been spooky. If they do kill off Bobby...I'll sad and mad. They've already killed two characters this season! (Four if you count Sam and Dean dying in Dark Side of the Moon). Then again I can understand Jim Beaver wanting to go on a show where's a regular again, and having Bobby sacrifice himself for the boys is kinda parallel to John at the beginning of Season 2, except even more selfless.
As for the debate from the last episode about this season and it's bad episodes...Changing Channels rocked (I loved the send up to CSI: Miami, and Grey's Anatomy, and the Sampala, the reveal about Gabriel was icing on the cake for me). As for Swap Meat...good concept in theory, HORRIBLE execution. It's kinda like a Sam focused Mysterious Case of Dean Winchester, pointless plot with a reset button at the end that does little to forward the overall season arc (then again at least MCDW showed us a hint of how desperate Bobby was/is). I think Mysterious Case was my least favorite of this season with Swap Meat being a close 2nd. Maybe this whole demons having a price on Dean's head will be important in these last two episodes, I don't know.
Interesting for it to be moved to Fridays...it IS a death slot, but I figured season 6 was going to be the last anyway. Hopefully they don't try to kill it before it gets its last 22 episodes anyway. Then again...if Smallville's still living and getting yet ANOTHER season I think there's hope. Funny...it'll be like what Thursdays used to be with Smallville and Supernatural together again. Fridays work for me because I don't do much then anyway, and if I do go to my parent's for the weekend I can just watch it there.
Looking forward to tonight's episode...the previews sure have been spooky. If they do kill off Bobby...I'll sad and mad. They've already killed two characters this season! (Four if you count Sam and Dean dying in Dark Side of the Moon). Then again I can understand Jim Beaver wanting to go on a show where's a regular again, and having Bobby sacrifice himself for the boys is kinda parallel to John at the beginning of Season 2, except even more selfless.
As for the debate from the last episode about this season and it's bad episodes...Changing Channels rocked (I loved the send up to CSI: Miami, and Grey's Anatomy, and the Sampala, the reveal about Gabriel was icing on the cake for me). As for Swap Meat...good concept in theory, HORRIBLE execution. It's kinda like a Sam focused Mysterious Case of Dean Winchester, pointless plot with a reset button at the end that does little to forward the overall season arc (then again at least MCDW showed us a hint of how desperate Bobby was/is). I think Mysterious Case was my least favorite of this season with Swap Meat being a close 2nd. Maybe this whole demons having a price on Dean's head will be important in these last two episodes, I don't know.
Ah ok, man Lost and SN ending oh so soon, all I have to look forward to this summer is True Blood, Entourage and Mad Men
I will finally start on breaking bad and the wire though
I will finally start on breaking bad and the wire though
Not bad--one of the better episodes in the last half of the season. Nothing great or mindblowing. An episode that did a "little bit of this and a little bit of that". It felt like an episode that was a catch-all where the writers needed to do some house cleaning by marking off post-haste things on their checklist that needed to be done before the season finale airs and as such felt less like a seamless cohesive episode and more of a stitched together hodge-podge crammed full that did a little bit of everything.
This certainly helped give the show a brisk pace that it rarely possesses which helped move things along but also made it feel a little too mechanical. We saw the groundwork of the resistance that was hinted at in "The End", we got a brief appearance by Pestilence, got his key, stopped the distribution of the Croatoan virus hidden within the flu vaccine, met Death, got his ring, he tells Dean how to go about using the rings to lock the cage, learn why Crowley really wanted Bobby's soul, saw Crowley could seemingly be a bit generous, Castiel returns fully human with a softer side. That kind of dense episode is one I'm more accustomed to on a show like LOST.
But here it helped to finally give the Apocalypse storyline much needed scope in terms of its epicness in theory(although I was disappointed they didn't go for broke and destroy Chicago in the SN universe--it would have added some shock, showed major stuff could happen and raise the stakes sorta like the attack on the Golden Gate Bridge on DS9 or the Xindi attack on Earth on ENT). I also liked seeing everyone--even those who would normally be adversaries--work together for a common cause. It was nice having some good music on the show most notable in the introduction of Death.
This show a lot of the time feels very underpopulated as far as extras so it certainly helped to finally give us a glimpse into the big world and its citizens which the Apocalypse threatens. Liked the on-location shoot with the pharmecutical trucks, the people in the streets.
But the real highlight of the episode was the extended intimate scene where Death waxes poetically about his worldview. I liked this interpretation--of an ancient being as old as time and God who has a very sophisticated attitude that loathes the idea that an inferior creature such as lucifer is hauling him around like an animal on a short leash all around the world. It also along with Crowley shows that the demon/supernatural culture isn't monolithic in backing lucifer. I also enjoyed the twist that he voluntarily without brute force surrenders his ring over to Dean. I also liked how the writers chose to give back Bobby's legs. It was a clever idea.
I thought it was a bit sloppy that Sam and Bobby let some workers in and out--not knowing if they were demons or not--we didn't see them performing any tests to determine such. I also thought it was ill advised that the boys went to confront Pestilence without a better plan of attack other than getting sick and even after they realized this they didn't pull back and regroup.
--it also held very few surprises everything played out like one would expect so felt like watching events that you knew had to happen, did happen and now that is behind us.
I'll give it a B. Better late than never. I still think this season was mishandled with too much filler, not enough focus on the mythology, too many silly episodes, too much poking fun at the series, the Apocalypse not adequately portrayed, and an annoying unevenness where the writers would stall then cram it all in last minute but SN usually does great season finales so it will at least go out with a strong bang--maybe.
This certainly helped give the show a brisk pace that it rarely possesses which helped move things along but also made it feel a little too mechanical. We saw the groundwork of the resistance that was hinted at in "The End", we got a brief appearance by Pestilence, got his key, stopped the distribution of the Croatoan virus hidden within the flu vaccine, met Death, got his ring, he tells Dean how to go about using the rings to lock the cage, learn why Crowley really wanted Bobby's soul, saw Crowley could seemingly be a bit generous, Castiel returns fully human with a softer side. That kind of dense episode is one I'm more accustomed to on a show like LOST.
But here it helped to finally give the Apocalypse storyline much needed scope in terms of its epicness in theory(although I was disappointed they didn't go for broke and destroy Chicago in the SN universe--it would have added some shock, showed major stuff could happen and raise the stakes sorta like the attack on the Golden Gate Bridge on DS9 or the Xindi attack on Earth on ENT). I also liked seeing everyone--even those who would normally be adversaries--work together for a common cause. It was nice having some good music on the show most notable in the introduction of Death.
This show a lot of the time feels very underpopulated as far as extras so it certainly helped to finally give us a glimpse into the big world and its citizens which the Apocalypse threatens. Liked the on-location shoot with the pharmecutical trucks, the people in the streets.
But the real highlight of the episode was the extended intimate scene where Death waxes poetically about his worldview. I liked this interpretation--of an ancient being as old as time and God who has a very sophisticated attitude that loathes the idea that an inferior creature such as lucifer is hauling him around like an animal on a short leash all around the world. It also along with Crowley shows that the demon/supernatural culture isn't monolithic in backing lucifer. I also enjoyed the twist that he voluntarily without brute force surrenders his ring over to Dean. I also liked how the writers chose to give back Bobby's legs. It was a clever idea.
I thought it was a bit sloppy that Sam and Bobby let some workers in and out--not knowing if they were demons or not--we didn't see them performing any tests to determine such. I also thought it was ill advised that the boys went to confront Pestilence without a better plan of attack other than getting sick and even after they realized this they didn't pull back and regroup.
--it also held very few surprises everything played out like one would expect so felt like watching events that you knew had to happen, did happen and now that is behind us.
I'll give it a B. Better late than never. I still think this season was mishandled with too much filler, not enough focus on the mythology, too many silly episodes, too much poking fun at the series, the Apocalypse not adequately portrayed, and an annoying unevenness where the writers would stall then cram it all in last minute but SN usually does great season finales so it will at least go out with a strong bang--maybe.
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I love LOST. It is my favorite series to come out in the last ten years. I'd love for it to go on forever if it could maintain its high quality but I think they are exiting the stage at just the right time because I'm starting to see the show--even though it has been good this season--start to wobble a bit. It is of a rare breed in tv where it ends before it jumps the shark. TNG, The X-Files, nBSG, Heroes, Roseanne, Melrose Place, Dallas etc all series I loved but overstayed their welcome.
I still stand by the fact that this should have been the final season for SN--cut out a bunch of the crap, have the showdown mid season and plenty of time to follow-up with some aftermath.
I second that. Though there were parts of the season I love, there were other parts I felt should have been improved like the season having more filler than arc.
The CW has scheduled reruns of CBS' Moonlight to run after Vampire Dairies over the summer...I am assuming the time shift for SN's repeats was a summer only thing.
That conversation between Dean and death.....loved it. Death willing to screw over Lucifer--perfection by half. 
I, too, wish they'd cut some of the filler and gotten to the rings and the virus/vaccine sooner, but that's what a cut budget by the CW will do to you.
Though Bobby was awfully hard on Castiel, though, considering everything. Hasn't Cas given up more when you cut to the chase? Altruistic Crowley....what's that dastardly demon's angle?
Oh, and the Dean girls at TWOP are having a hissy because now Sam is "more important than Dean." 
It's classic. The forum operator cut into the message commentary thread to issue and official order to stop the Sam vs. Dean whining. After all this time, they're still griping that Sam is ending up being "more super special." To think, people think SPN fans are psycho fangirls. Wherever do they get that from? 
Post from TWOP thread....
....Well that was a big bore. Dean/Death was made of win as was Crowley and Cas, but I am offically over the Sam Winchester show with Sam as the misunderstood hero, to be the only one to pervail, while Dean stands to the side, and holds his cape.....
Can you believe that crap?
EDIT-I know this is nuts, but did anyone wonder for a second if Crowley could be God?
I, too, wish they'd cut some of the filler and gotten to the rings and the virus/vaccine sooner, but that's what a cut budget by the CW will do to you. Though Bobby was awfully hard on Castiel, though, considering everything. Hasn't Cas given up more when you cut to the chase? Altruistic Crowley....what's that dastardly demon's angle?
Oh, and the Dean girls at TWOP are having a hissy because now Sam is "more important than Dean." It's classic. The forum operator cut into the message commentary thread to issue and official order to stop the Sam vs. Dean whining. After all this time, they're still griping that Sam is ending up being "more super special." To think, people think SPN fans are psycho fangirls. Wherever do they get that from? Post from TWOP thread....
....Well that was a big bore. Dean/Death was made of win as was Crowley and Cas, but I am offically over the Sam Winchester show with Sam as the misunderstood hero, to be the only one to pervail, while Dean stands to the side, and holds his cape.....
Can you believe that crap?EDIT-I know this is nuts, but did anyone wonder for a second if Crowley could be God?
Actually word for word the show has had more arc this season then any other. Now you can certainly argue you didn't like it (Personal preference, and I have been on record of many that I either thought purely average to those that I actively disliked).
But for starters I think many people expected a different type of Apocalypse. It seems clear to me that several posters here had a completely different view on how this arc should be portrayed.
I have found it extremely consistent within the frame work of how SN is able to tell its stories.
Take last year's arc of stopping Lilith. How many episodes did they actually do that in or have that be a focus? Very few. But the arc was maintained by the character issues and the background aspects of Searching for Lilith.
In fact breaking down the episodes I would hazard a guess we actually got more episodes and more footage connected to the arc (and not just character aspects) then any other season of SN.
Some common criticisms:
Too many comedy episodes (especially crammed all together), and in this I will absolutely agree. As we have 3 out of 4 episodes that were comedy driven at the early stage of this season. Also a series record. And while I know many people who love the comedy, in general I am not one of them (Hell I actually think The Real Ghostbusters was the best of the comedy episodes, I think the leads really stayed true to the characters of Sam and Dean).
Too many snarky comments in a normal (non comedy episode). Usually this is the humor I actually like. But I do feel this season has had more general humor and often at times or in situations not appropriate to the character or the event. 3rd episode Cas and Dean are out setting up Rapheal, and the musical cues are straight out of Keystone cops (WTF) Absolutely terrible choice. Dean using what was a lethal toy on Sam to convince the Anti Christ it wasn't lethal. Sorry absolutely don't buy that even when Dean is pissed with Sam that he would do that (but played for Laughs). THis episode, I bought and liked all the humor except one brief line by Sam asking if Bobby kissed Crowly. Doesn't seem like something they would ask after a deal (both having very deep personal feelings about deals with CRD). Now Crowley's response, no problem at all, it fits the character and how he feels about those events, it isn't a monumental huge event for him. Its a day at the office. But I think they could have cut this type of thing about 10% or at least pay more attention to where it occurred during episodes.
No strong undercurrent building to the confrontation with Lucifer throughout the season. Rationally this didn't bother me, as this wasn't ever (unlike the number of seals with Lilith) a case of having a set time of confrontation. Just a case of more bad things happening to earth in a larger scale, but thats it. In fact this was something more at their control then any other conflict they have dealt with over the years. But dramatically, it did hurt the year. But again rationally, it makes sense.
Stand alones (which they aren't and haven't been for a few seasons), I have no problem with the number of them (like I said I think we actually got less of that this year then ever before). But compared to how successful those episodes were in seasons 2 and 4, we didn't match that level of quality. Most either weren't hard hitting enough for their material (yeah Mental Institution episodes, I am screaming at you not an awful episode or anything, but so much weaker then that material should have been) or deliberately played soft (Swam Meat, The Curious Case of Dean Winchester) are good examples of this.
Production Issues: They really (well for this show) opened up the heavy arc episodes when a larger canvas then we have typically seen before (except for season openers and enders). But the reverse is also true, it really felt (to me) that the stand alone's felt even smaller (few locations, few guest stars) just not expansive (again for this show). I think this hurt several episodes (a lot in a few cases). THis was true not only in production values, but in actors. We had a lt of strong guest actors in the myth arc episodes, in the stand alone's we seriously downgraded on casting. That really doesn't help.
One of the things I am hoping for next season, is that we get a better balance in focus. So that we don't see such a wide difference between the quality of the heavy arc episodes and the more standalone.
But for starters I think many people expected a different type of Apocalypse. It seems clear to me that several posters here had a completely different view on how this arc should be portrayed.
I have found it extremely consistent within the frame work of how SN is able to tell its stories.
Take last year's arc of stopping Lilith. How many episodes did they actually do that in or have that be a focus? Very few. But the arc was maintained by the character issues and the background aspects of Searching for Lilith.
In fact breaking down the episodes I would hazard a guess we actually got more episodes and more footage connected to the arc (and not just character aspects) then any other season of SN.
Some common criticisms:
Too many comedy episodes (especially crammed all together), and in this I will absolutely agree. As we have 3 out of 4 episodes that were comedy driven at the early stage of this season. Also a series record. And while I know many people who love the comedy, in general I am not one of them (Hell I actually think The Real Ghostbusters was the best of the comedy episodes, I think the leads really stayed true to the characters of Sam and Dean).
Too many snarky comments in a normal (non comedy episode). Usually this is the humor I actually like. But I do feel this season has had more general humor and often at times or in situations not appropriate to the character or the event. 3rd episode Cas and Dean are out setting up Rapheal, and the musical cues are straight out of Keystone cops (WTF) Absolutely terrible choice. Dean using what was a lethal toy on Sam to convince the Anti Christ it wasn't lethal. Sorry absolutely don't buy that even when Dean is pissed with Sam that he would do that (but played for Laughs). THis episode, I bought and liked all the humor except one brief line by Sam asking if Bobby kissed Crowly. Doesn't seem like something they would ask after a deal (both having very deep personal feelings about deals with CRD). Now Crowley's response, no problem at all, it fits the character and how he feels about those events, it isn't a monumental huge event for him. Its a day at the office. But I think they could have cut this type of thing about 10% or at least pay more attention to where it occurred during episodes.
No strong undercurrent building to the confrontation with Lucifer throughout the season. Rationally this didn't bother me, as this wasn't ever (unlike the number of seals with Lilith) a case of having a set time of confrontation. Just a case of more bad things happening to earth in a larger scale, but thats it. In fact this was something more at their control then any other conflict they have dealt with over the years. But dramatically, it did hurt the year. But again rationally, it makes sense.
Stand alones (which they aren't and haven't been for a few seasons), I have no problem with the number of them (like I said I think we actually got less of that this year then ever before). But compared to how successful those episodes were in seasons 2 and 4, we didn't match that level of quality. Most either weren't hard hitting enough for their material (yeah Mental Institution episodes, I am screaming at you not an awful episode or anything, but so much weaker then that material should have been) or deliberately played soft (Swam Meat, The Curious Case of Dean Winchester) are good examples of this.
Production Issues: They really (well for this show) opened up the heavy arc episodes when a larger canvas then we have typically seen before (except for season openers and enders). But the reverse is also true, it really felt (to me) that the stand alone's felt even smaller (few locations, few guest stars) just not expansive (again for this show). I think this hurt several episodes (a lot in a few cases). THis was true not only in production values, but in actors. We had a lt of strong guest actors in the myth arc episodes, in the stand alone's we seriously downgraded on casting. That really doesn't help.
One of the things I am hoping for next season, is that we get a better balance in focus. So that we don't see such a wide difference between the quality of the heavy arc episodes and the more standalone.
I always figured Crowley to be a reference to the character of Crowley in Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Good Omens is about the coming of the End Times and a demon named Crowley banding together with an angel to avert them because they're comfortable with their situations and don't want things to change.
While that is of course possible (and they have yet to announce their fall schedule), it is extremely odd that the CW would move currently its 2nd strongest rerun performer (not only in total viewers but also in adults 18-49 and adults 18-34). SN was the CW strongest performer in reruns during last summer (for the first time averaging stronger then Smallville). Even though its summer the shows still generate revenue viewer for viewer equal to what is generated during the fall and spring (its just normally they have a lot less viewers). Why move a strong performer from (and especially in summer hello movie season) your most valuable ad generating night (thursday night before the weekend). For a failed show (that is not coming back in any way shape or form).
As for tonights episode, I really, really liked it. Strong directing, strong acting, larger scale production. Some very nice conversations. I really enjoyed Death and Dean. Nice to see them Death's perspective. Nice to see that they all actually talked about Sam's plan. Loved the Bobby Dean talk.
As for Bobby harping on Castiel. Well frankly it makes sense. Castiel doesn't know if his condition is going to last, or just be temporary.
The only major aspect I would have changed is I would have had Sam be the only one to go into the building to destroy the Croatoan virus as he is the only one who is immune to it.
In my book this was an A-.
I would give more detail but I have to get up early tomorrow so its off to bed.
As for Bobby harping on Castiel. Well frankly it makes sense. Castiel doesn't know if his condition is going to last, or just be temporary.
The only major aspect I would have changed is I would have had Sam be the only one to go into the building to destroy the Croatoan virus as he is the only one who is immune to it.
In my book this was an A-.
I would give more detail but I have to get up early tomorrow so its off to bed.
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