Supernatural5x21 "Two Minutes to Midnight"

[mswood]

The producers did say we would see God, though of course they might have changed their mind.

 

[startrekwatcher]

But for starters I think many people expected a different type of Apocalypse. It seems clear to me that several posters here had a completely different view on how this arc should be portrayed.

I have found it extremely consistent within the frame work of how SN is able to tell its stories.

Yes I am one of those people who would have liked a more epic season driven by the Apocalypse however I knew from the beginning it simply wasn't in the cards because the budget. So it was always going to be about Sam & Dean and how the Apocalypse was really nothing more than a tool by the writers to explore its effect on them even though I might have liked a more expansive scope that looked at the Apocalypse and its effects on more than two people--we did get a bit of this with Castiel or Crowley--but not nearly enough.

At the end of the day I long since accepted that SN is all about the Winchesters and everything else is tertiary--the plot, revelations, epic storytelling, big FX etc. It all comes back down to them. I myself am not too big of a fan of treating everything else as a means to an end for that purpose because when you do that it can hurt the overall quality of a story. I like to think that good writers can juggle all of it giving us strong characterization, interesting plot, suspense, shaking up of the status quo, and measured pacing. It just is unsatisfying when they basically say only this aspect is important so they don't put much effort in the other areas.

A lot of this season also felt like it was going back over well todden ground regarding the brothers and their relationship.

But the arc was maintained by the character issues and the background aspects of Searching for Lilith.

They did a much better job in season four in pulling off more than just characterization and using the arc for just character issues in my opinion. It had plot, a nice growing cast of recurring characters(Anna, Castiel etc), more exciting events that framed the episodes. The highs were higher. The mythology was more interesting. The writing was more consistent. The episodes didn't felt like they were a mixed bag and their only purpose was to seed future plots.

This season the episodes felt like they existed to cough up a few pieces of the puzzle and in and of themselves there wasn't a whole lot to offer. Then we had a stretch barring Abandon All Hope where the episodes just basically weren't interesting. They didn't have much to offer. One episode you can get past but week after week takes a toll where you just about lost me as a viewer.

 

[startrekwatcher]

The producers did say we would see God, though of course they might have changed their mind.

Given the Winchesters bloodline as vessels, the comment from Ash in "Dark Side of the Moon" about being unable to locate John and the show turning expectations on their ear with more mundane portrayals of grand beings i.e. lucifer in human form never seeing his true supernatural form same with the angels--I wouldn't be surprised if mid-battle dad literally steps in--given the familial allusions all season--to break up the fight and handle this "family squabble" that is threatening to destroy his sons with God in John's resurrected body. I could definitely see John agreeing if it meant saving his boys. It would also bring the series full circle. Or maybe not.

The more I think about it I am really liking it.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

The only thing that's bugged me this season was that I figured Lucifer was gonna be more of a looming force than he has been, he's kind of just been there when the story needed him to be. I mean I don't want him to be a moustache twirling evil doer, but just somebody more menacing with a little more pishaw, less melancholy . Azazel seemed much more akin to that as a big bad

the Death/Dean scene was pretty awesome. His one appearance has made the season for me, thus far

 

[Roshi]

Sam: "Did you kiss him?"
Bobby: "Nooo!"

 

[Lt. Trull]

The producers did say we would see God, though of course they might have changed their mind.

that's what I thought.... didn't they promise that we'd see god this season.... one episode left (right/wrong?).... what are they going to do.... have He/She/It show up at the end of the show and proclaim. I alway's knew you could do it sam and dean... after all I am omniscient and omnipotent.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Alanis Morisette will make her 2nd appearance as God. Now that would be random. And man, Jim Beaver is such a trooper.

 

[Checkmate]

I really enjoyed this episode. Especially some of Castiel's lines, as well as Crowley. Whoever heads up the casting decisions on this show deserves some kind of huge medal or something.

 

[Othello]

That conversation between Dean and death.....loved it. Death willing to screw over Lucifer--perfection by half. I, too, wish they'd cut some of the filler and gotten to the rings and the virus/vaccine sooner, but that's what a cut budget by the CW will do to you.

Though Bobby was awfully hard on Castiel, though, considering everything. Hasn't Cas given up more when you cut to the chase? Altruistic Crowley....what's that dastardly demon's angle? Oh, and the Dean girls at TWOP are having a hissy because now Sam is "more important than Dean." It's classic. The forum operator cut into the message commentary thread to issue and official order to stop the Sam vs. Dean whining. After all this time, they're still griping that Sam is ending up being "more super special." To think, people think SPN fans are psycho fangirls. Wherever do they get that from?

Post from TWOP thread....
....Well that was a big bore. Dean/Death was made of win as was Crowley and Cas, but I am offically over the Sam Winchester show with Sam as the misunderstood hero, to be the only one to pervail, while Dean stands to the side, and holds his cape.....

Can you believe that crap?

EDIT-I know this is nuts, but did anyone wonder for a second if Crowley could be God?

I'd be kicked off those forums so fast it's not even funny. I'd love nothing more than to go over there and tell those fools what a jackass Dean is and how much better Sam is than dean.

Kinda like I always enjoyed sticking it in the eye of the Lana haters here.


Hmm... Crowley = God.. interesting thought. on't think ti will happen but I like the idea. That pic on the phone was pricless!!! I was laughing my ass off during that scene.

Anyways.. this really was a great episode in my book.Really had some heft to it.

 

[Checkmate]

I doubt Crowley is God; Dean's charm would have gone crazy if he were.

 

[Thor Damar]

Quick question, the actor who portrayed the Grim Reaper so well, is he who I think he is?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Death is so awesome he has his own theme song.

 

[Checkmate]

Quick question, the actor who portrayed the Grim Reaper so well, is he who I think he is?

Do you mean Death? He was played by Julian Richings. Just more great casting.

If I had one complaint about this episode, it's how brief Pestilence's time was. I admit, out of the Four Horsemen, Prestilence was always my least favorite conceptually. But Matt Frewer was just fantastic as him.

Ugh. I'm turning into a fangirl.

I'm wondering now, however, if all four of the Horsemen were similarly constrained by Lucifer. The only spell we saw being cast was with Death, but they were always calling each other 'brother.' Is Death really the only apparently omnipotent one? And why has no one else ever mentioned this on the show? I mean, he seems confident that he'll be able to reap God himself, and he's not even sure which one of them is the older of the two.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Maybe it's just him talking a big talk to try and scare Dean to get him to unleash Satans grasp on him and not to eff with him

 

[Checkmate]

I don't know, it kind of makes sense in retrospect. Afterall, he does have his own host of angels in the form of the Reapers. They never seemed to be quite as powerful as an angel or a demon, but he has a ton of them. And unlike the other Horseman, he didn't seem to need or want any assistance from demons.

 

[Dream]

Wow, did they really deal with two horseman in one episode? Pestilence and Death each should have gotten their own episodes. It felt so rushed

It was okay. The best scene was definitely the conversation between Death and Dean. The actor playing death was great and the very idea that Death would reap God was awesome.

Now that the season is almost over, I realize how lacking the entire Apocalypse arc has been. The Horseman have mostly felt like MOTW and the show has wasted Mark Pellegrino's acting talents as Lucifer. I looked at imdb a while back and it listed Pellegrio as being in the last four episodes of the season and I was so excited, but that turned out to be a wrong. I was really disappointed.

 

[hyzmarca]

Given the way they handled Death, he couldn't have had a stand alone episode. It would have been a five minute conversation and 35 minutes of filler.

 

[Dream]

Given the way they handled Death, he couldn't have had a stand alone episode. It would have been a five minute conversation and 35 minutes of filler.

I don't know about that. Lucifer could have given Death some demon bodyguards like the ones he gave Famine. Dean and Sam could have spent much more time looking death and killed the demons to get to Death, and it could have ended the same with with the surprise conversation at the end.

I just wished that Pestilence and Death had gotten way more scenes.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Maybe it won't be the last time we see him, maybe Death somehow does get screwed over by Dean and bam! New big bad for next season. Although I know some of you guys want something more intimate about the Winchesters to wrap the series up

 

[Checkmate]

Somehow I doubt Sam and Dean would stand much of a chance against a being who can just will them dead at any given moment.