Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
Oh, Kripke promised a massive cliffhanger in TV Guide.
Oh, Kripke promised a massive cliffhanger in TV Guide.
Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoilers
- Thread starter Dorian Thompson
- Start date
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
is it that the bad guys will succeed?
is it that the bad guys will succeed?
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
In addition to my previous post: I think I also know why the Angels need Dean so much. Knowing his brother's physical weaknesses and given some backup by them, they want Dean to kill Sam when he is possessed by Lucifer. Killing Sam would kill Lucifer and that would be the end of the Angels' problem. These Angels aren't the ones who want to join Lucifer like Uriel. They are the ones who feel imprisoning him was the mistake. That as long as he is locked up, he still remains a threat to Heaven, God, and creation. So when Dean got killed and Sam started obsessing about Lilith who wanted to set loose the Devil, the Angels saw their opportunity to rid themselves of Lucifer completely. I don't even think God is aware of their plan. And, in case you're wondering, Castiel warning Dean about Sam so he could try to stop him from going further down the dark path he was on, he did this without the Angels' consent. When they confronted him about it, he would make a point about them keeping Sam in a good place would make Dean grateful and maybe willing to do things when they turn to him for help. The Angels went along with it for a time and they couldn't flat-out tell Castiel their plan in fear that he may tell Dean. They already saw signs of Castiel getting a bit too close to Dean.
And to give more of a foundation to my theory that Lilith is the last seal, in the episode when Sam and Dean met the writer who had visions of their adventures, Lilith admitted to Sam that she won't be around to see the good parts of Armageddon. She knew she was going to die before Lucifer rise and start reigning hell on Earth. And I think the reason why she was so against Sam in Season 3 and this season is because she suspected Ruby's plan and didn't want her to steal the spotlight from her.
In addition to my previous post: I think I also know why the Angels need Dean so much. Knowing his brother's physical weaknesses and given some backup by them, they want Dean to kill Sam when he is possessed by Lucifer. Killing Sam would kill Lucifer and that would be the end of the Angels' problem. These Angels aren't the ones who want to join Lucifer like Uriel. They are the ones who feel imprisoning him was the mistake. That as long as he is locked up, he still remains a threat to Heaven, God, and creation. So when Dean got killed and Sam started obsessing about Lilith who wanted to set loose the Devil, the Angels saw their opportunity to rid themselves of Lucifer completely. I don't even think God is aware of their plan. And, in case you're wondering, Castiel warning Dean about Sam so he could try to stop him from going further down the dark path he was on, he did this without the Angels' consent. When they confronted him about it, he would make a point about them keeping Sam in a good place would make Dean grateful and maybe willing to do things when they turn to him for help. The Angels went along with it for a time and they couldn't flat-out tell Castiel their plan in fear that he may tell Dean. They already saw signs of Castiel getting a bit too close to Dean.
And to give more of a foundation to my theory that Lilith is the last seal, in the episode when Sam and Dean met the writer who had visions of their adventures, Lilith admitted to Sam that she won't be around to see the good parts of Armageddon. She knew she was going to die before Lucifer rise and start reigning hell on Earth. And I think the reason why she was so against Sam in Season 3 and this season is because she suspected Ruby's plan and didn't want her to steal the spotlight from her.
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
I like this. Good theory.
I like this. Good theory.
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
Sam never could have been more on point in his criticisms of Dean. And, as you may have noticed, Dean DID call Sam a monster which was foreshadowed by Sam's hallucination. Bobby has more care ad common sense in this matter in his pinky than Dean does in his whole body. Deans driven by his hatred for the supernatural far more than he is for his "love" of his brother.
Eh?He's been anything but sanctimonious.
Sam never could have been more on point in his criticisms of Dean. And, as you may have noticed, Dean DID call Sam a monster which was foreshadowed by Sam's hallucination. Bobby has more care ad common sense in this matter in his pinky than Dean does in his whole body. Deans driven by his hatred for the supernatural far more than he is for his "love" of his brother.
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
It's their family dynamic, Othello. Dean went about getting Sam back in the entirely wrong way. He can't stop being "daddy brother" for a minute, and he's exhausted and pissed off. Dean always tries to force the situation when he's at the end of his tether. He should have pretended, lied and then ganked Ruby later on.
Of course, that would have brought about other repercussions. For someone who was spot on about how Dean called the shots, Sam still uses that younger sibling manipulation like a pro. 
"Don't boss me around!" "You don't know me!" Sam resents being taken care of, but he expects it. I'm the youngest sibling. I get that mindset. Even as an adult, it's the easiest mindset in the world to slip into.
For all his bossiness, Dean is right on this one. Sam is about to become Lucifer's "second." A human who becomes demon without dying like his first. Maybe that's what's needed for Lucifer to rise--as was previously speculated on upthread.
It's their family dynamic, Othello. Dean went about getting Sam back in the entirely wrong way. He can't stop being "daddy brother" for a minute, and he's exhausted and pissed off. Dean always tries to force the situation when he's at the end of his tether. He should have pretended, lied and then ganked Ruby later on.
Of course, that would have brought about other repercussions. For someone who was spot on about how Dean called the shots, Sam still uses that younger sibling manipulation like a pro. "Don't boss me around!" "You don't know me!" Sam resents being taken care of, but he expects it. I'm the youngest sibling. I get that mindset. Even as an adult, it's the easiest mindset in the world to slip into. For all his bossiness, Dean is right on this one. Sam is about to become Lucifer's "second." A human who becomes demon without dying like his first. Maybe that's what's needed for Lucifer to rise--as was previously speculated on upthread.
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
YEah clearly Dean has gone about this wrong, but it is completely consistent to how he has written.
His attitude towards the SN (and even his brother strictly with visions) has caused Sam to not be open and honest with Dean.
But as much as I have rationalized Sam's behavior (and why he could logically reach the state he is in) This is Dean who has lost his mother to a demon (Sam never knew her) he has actual knowledge that this demon has more plans the just what he originally thought. HE lost his childhood to this demon, he lost his father to this demon, he watched the one person he has tried to shield from this life (at least early) become so intagled in this life that, his father made him promise to kill him. He spent a year doing everything he could to shield Sam from his malefic destiny. Yet when Sam died (and stayed true to himself) Dean simply couldn't let go. Going so far to actually do something absolutely alien to him, to sell his soul to a demon to bring him back. That he was willing to go to hell for him. Then after actually discovering what hell truly is, comes back and finds his brother apparently on a course of not only self destruction but perhaps far larger.
Dean has gotten to a point (that I wished the episode would have stated) that he probably realizes that he should have left Sam dead (and not because of breaking the first seal.
What's interesting is that Dean gets to the point (his offer to actively hunt Lilith with Sam) too late. If he made that offer originally Sam to Sam (say around the halloween episode, when Sam wasn't addicted yet) things probably would have worked fine at least in their relationship.
On the episode a couple other points.
WHo should get to kill Ruby (it should be a poll). Dean or Sam. I can understand it being Sam (after all he was the one used and manipulated. But Dean, lost what he feels is the single biggest thing in his whole life, his brother. So I say go get her.
I wished we got a scene of Dean trying to be there for him in the safe room. I think the episode actually suffers from that.
Oh and Dean better find out about what Castiel did, and soon. Because Damn.....
YEah clearly Dean has gone about this wrong, but it is completely consistent to how he has written.
His attitude towards the SN (and even his brother strictly with visions) has caused Sam to not be open and honest with Dean.
But as much as I have rationalized Sam's behavior (and why he could logically reach the state he is in) This is Dean who has lost his mother to a demon (Sam never knew her) he has actual knowledge that this demon has more plans the just what he originally thought. HE lost his childhood to this demon, he lost his father to this demon, he watched the one person he has tried to shield from this life (at least early) become so intagled in this life that, his father made him promise to kill him. He spent a year doing everything he could to shield Sam from his malefic destiny. Yet when Sam died (and stayed true to himself) Dean simply couldn't let go. Going so far to actually do something absolutely alien to him, to sell his soul to a demon to bring him back. That he was willing to go to hell for him. Then after actually discovering what hell truly is, comes back and finds his brother apparently on a course of not only self destruction but perhaps far larger.
Dean has gotten to a point (that I wished the episode would have stated) that he probably realizes that he should have left Sam dead (and not because of breaking the first seal.
What's interesting is that Dean gets to the point (his offer to actively hunt Lilith with Sam) too late. If he made that offer originally Sam to Sam (say around the halloween episode, when Sam wasn't addicted yet) things probably would have worked fine at least in their relationship.
On the episode a couple other points.
WHo should get to kill Ruby (it should be a poll). Dean or Sam. I can understand it being Sam (after all he was the one used and manipulated. But Dean, lost what he feels is the single biggest thing in his whole life, his brother. So I say go get her.
I wished we got a scene of Dean trying to be there for him in the safe room. I think the episode actually suffers from that.
Oh and Dean better find out about what Castiel did, and soon. Because Damn.....
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
Othello? Otheeeeeeeeellooooooo?????? I have a season finale preview clip for you here. Just freshly released. It may be to your liking. Just a hunch.
Dean and Bobby
Enjoy.
EDIT--loved your post, mswood. That's what I love about the family dynamic on this show. You see them both just fucking up, but at the same time you can't blame them because it's so bloody understandable why they do it.
Yep. I totally agree. But Dean's still so traumatized by hell at that point (being too ashamed and not yet having admitted to Sam what he did) that he just wants it all to go away. He's too caught up in it to "allow" Sam to hunt Lilith with him. He can't let go of the protector role. It's that ingrained.
Dean should get to kill Ruby. It's only fair. And oooooohhhhhh, what Castiel did. The angels want Sam to do what he's doing.
Othello? Otheeeeeeeeellooooooo?????? I have a season finale preview clip for you here. Just freshly released. It may be to your liking. Just a hunch.
Dean and Bobby
Enjoy.
EDIT--loved your post, mswood. That's what I love about the family dynamic on this show. You see them both just fucking up, but at the same time you can't blame them because it's so bloody understandable why they do it.
Yep. I totally agree. But Dean's still so traumatized by hell at that point (being too ashamed and not yet having admitted to Sam what he did) that he just wants it all to go away. He's too caught up in it to "allow" Sam to hunt Lilith with him. He can't let go of the protector role. It's that ingrained.
Dean should get to kill Ruby. It's only fair. And oooooohhhhhh, what Castiel did. The angels want Sam to do what he's doing.
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
Bobby is awesome!
"They're supposed to make you feel miserable, that's why they're family"
QFT
Othello? Otheeeeeeeeellooooooo?????? I have a season finale preview clip for you here. Just freshly released. It may be to your liking. Just a hunch.
Dean and Bobby
Enjoy.
Bobby is awesome!
"They're supposed to make you feel miserable, that's why they're family"
QFT
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
I swear the writers must have been at one of my family's Christmas get-togethers....
Tony
I swear the writers must have been at one of my family's Christmas get-togethers....
Tony
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
No, they were filming in the car on my family vacations when my father was telling my mother that she just wasn't driving right and asking what was she trying to do to his car.
Such a lovely feeling--being trapped like a rat in the back seat while mom and dad screamed at each other. Ahhhhh, memories.
No, they were filming in the car on my family vacations when my father was telling my mother that she just wasn't driving right and asking what was she trying to do to his car.
Such a lovely feeling--being trapped like a rat in the back seat while mom and dad screamed at each other. Ahhhhh, memories.
Re: Supernatural4x21 "When the Levee Breaks" episode discussion/spoile
Whoooooooaaaaa.......Space promo for episode 4x22, "Lucifer Rising." As usual it kicks ass while the CW's is crapola. This I like.
Lucifer Rising
Me like.
Whoooooooaaaaa.......Space promo for episode 4x22, "Lucifer Rising." As usual it kicks ass while the CW's is crapola. This I like.
Lucifer Rising
Me like.