Supernatural 8x20 "The Great Escapist" spoiler discussion thread

[Dorian Thompson]

New episode tonight, good people. Written by the one and only Ben Edlund. Sure to be a treat. I, of course, am stuck at work. Boss didn't get fired. That sucks.

 

[Snaploud]

I like that the show is finally getting back to interesting grand concepts. I'm intrigued by Metatron talking about closing hell as turning just "one" of the levers of creation and his hints about potential darker consequences to such an act (beyond the personal consequences for Sam and Dean). He also brought up an interesting bit about how stories were just the tip of the iceberg for what humans could do with free will.

The episode also had some good bits about the behind-the-scenes role of Naomi.

 

[Mister Fandango]

There's at least two levels (Heaven and Hell) and likely at least three (Purgatory), so there's no real mystery about that "hint."

As for the darker consequences, closing the doors to Hell also means no one goes to Hell anymore when they die, even those that richly deserve it. Same would hold true for Heaven, I imagine. But assuming you only close the doors to Hell, what happens to those souls? Evil, vindictive ghosts escalate maybe? They give birth to new, more dangerous monsters? etc.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How about how Metatron said "The Universe" as if Earth isn't the only place where life lives.

 

[Roshi]

That's how I understood it too.

 

[auntiehill]

This was a great episode. We got to hear more about the angels, meet Metatron and learn a little bit more about Castiel. I also liked the bit with Crowley trying to "direct." A really good episode, all around.

 

[Brent]

I loved this episode, so it definitely tells us that Naomi is indeed an ark angel, and not some other sort of being. We also learned that God did at one point exist, had Metatron write some stuff down, then dissapeared. I assume he just went somewhere else, maybe another dimension, universe, who knows. Or maybe he is there, watching everything. But then the ark angels missed him so much they kinda took power and started directing things themselves, and have gone off kilter, away from the original plan God wanted for them. Lots of lore there.

Agree with the other posts, good stuff learned. I love lore heavy episodes.

 

[Mister Fandango]

How about how Metatron said "The Universe" as if Earth isn't the only place where life lives.

We've been told that several times before, including from Castiel himself. I'm pretty sure Crowley's said it as well.

We also learned that God did at one point exist, had Metatron write some stuff down, then dissapeared.

And we've known that for a while now, too. We've even seen God several times on the show, as mentioned in the last episode thread.

And even if you want to ignore that, we know God was on Earth courtesy of Joshua -- the only angel still in contact with God. God even told Joshua to leave the Winchester's memories in tact before sending them back to Earth.

The question is why he's taken an off-hands approach to Creation, not if he ever existed or is still around.

 

[Aeon]

It definitely feels like God has this hands-off attitude towards humanity and he has a lot of faith in our "Team Free Will" in the middle of angels and demons, although he has clearly intervened at least twice: zapping the brothers on the plane away from Lucifer's emergence from the cage and bringing back Castiel after he exploded, both events seen in Sympathy For The Devil. Also the situation in The Dark Side Of The Moon could also be considered as a intervention to stop their useless search and keep them focused.

 

[RJDiogenes]

This was a great episode. I love Metatron. His apartment looks a lot like mine.

There was lots of great stuff in this episode. Metatron pretty much confirmed that there would be negative consequences to closing the Gates of Hell, as we have been speculating. And the restaurant slaughter pretty much confirmed-- as if we didn't know-- that Angels are just as bad as Demons. They are weapons to be programmed and reprogrammed as the need arises. Castiel is "broken" because he has a conscience. Given that, along with Crowley's ability to take Bobby to Hell just because he felt like it, there's really not a lot of difference between Heaven, Hell and Purgatory.

And I wonder which Demon Sam will be "curing."

I was also a bit confused by the showdown between Kevin and Crowley. Kevin seemed to be without fear from the moment that Crowley came in. So was that blast of light something that Kevin did that he found in the tablet, or was that Metatron saving his ass?

Some nice funny moments in this one, too. "We're the Winchesters. The Winchesters!"

 

[Brent]

How about how Metatron said "The Universe" as if Earth isn't the only place where life lives.

We've been told that several times before, including from Castiel himself. I'm pretty sure Crowley's said it as well.

We also learned that God did at one point exist, had Metatron write some stuff down, then dissapeared.

And we've known that for a while now, too. We've even seen God several times on the show, as mentioned in the last episode thread.

And even if you want to ignore that, we know God was on Earth courtesy of Joshua -- the only angel still in contact with God. God even told Joshua to leave the Winchester's memories in tact before sending them back to Earth.

The question is why he's taken an off-hands approach to Creation, not if he ever existed or is still around.

I will never buy that Chuck is/was God, unless they come out and say it. I'm not one that buys into that theory.

I do not think we've seen God in the show yet, IMO.

 

[Brent]

This was a great episode. I love Metatron. His apartment looks a lot like mine.

There was lots of great stuff in this episode. Metatron pretty much confirmed that there would be negative consequences to closing the Gates of Hell, as we have been speculating. And the restaurant slaughter pretty much confirmed-- as if we didn't know-- that Angels are just as bad as Demons. They are weapons to be programmed and reprogrammed as the need arises. Castiel is "broken" because he has a conscience. Given that, along with Crowley's ability to take Bobby to Hell just because he felt like it, there's really not a lot of difference between Heaven, Hell and Purgatory.

And I wonder which Demon Sam will be "curing."

I was also a bit confused by the showdown between Kevin and Crowley. Kevin seemed to be without fear from the moment that Crowley came in. So was that blast of light something that Kevin did that he found in the tablet, or was that Metatron saving his ass?

Some nice funny moments in this one, too. "We're the Winchesters. The Winchesters!"

It was Metatron, he was able to erase the markings, get in, and save Kevin. Right after this, he even says I saved him directly.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Curtis Armstrong gave a great performance as Metatron. He was quiet and subdued and still managed to deliver quite a bit of exposition in a way that had me hanging on every word. Bravo, Booger!

The hiding out in identical fast food franchises idea was pretty clever. I know I've mentioned this before but it is cool seeing Amanda Tapping playing such a ruthless villain. I bet she and Mark Sheppard are just having a blast playing off of each other.

Speaking of Crowley, when he first shot his angel-killing gun, my first thought was that he had somehow gotten his hands on the Colt from seasons past. Instead it's yet another cool idea from the mind of Ben Edlund, like Metatron changing the anti-angel glyphs or Cas keeping the tablet in his tummy.

Really cool episode.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Bullets are small.

Angle blades are much larger.

One blade = 80 bullets?

 

[Candlelight]

This is episode 821, not 820.

*runs away*

 

[Mister Fandango]

I will never buy that Chuck is/was God, unless they come out and say it. I'm not one that buys into that theory.

I do not think we've seen God in the show yet, IMO.

You're certainly free to think what you want, but when the show all but says it and it's backed up not only by the actor *and* the showrunner's comments, well, to each their own.

But God's been on the show, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If it was true, the showrunner would never admit it.

I saw the (1977) making of Star Wars (Narrated by C3po and R2d2.) and at the end, they ask Carrie, Harrison, and Mark about who they thought Princess Leia would wind up with? The answers were hilarious.

The face of God is the money shot.

Why undercut themselves?

 

[Vendikarr]

And I wonder which Demon Sam will be "curing."

There was speculation that Meg wasn't actually killed by Crowley in her appearance this season. She seemed to be genuinely in love with Cas, so I think she's half way there. I would bet she's our demon.

And I am betting the 'curing' is purifying the soul so it's fit to go to Heaven.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Define "demon"?

Is all of what we've met a subspecies of demons or something completely different...

Everyone is a child of Lillith right?

 

[Snaploud]

There's at least two levels (Heaven and Hell) and likely at least three (Purgatory), so there's no real mystery about that "hint."

Are you assuming that the "levers" of creation just refers to the closing/opening of those three places? We really don't have any evidence one way or the other. It's a good theory, though.