Supernatural 6x11 "Appointment in Samarra" spoilers/discussion
- Thread starter Dream
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I thought the episode continued an important and interesting discussion of fate vs. choice and how Dean fits into the larger world.
Dean recently stopped a major planned event in the history of mankind (heaven vs. hell), and he accomplished that feat by putting his own beliefs above what everybody else was calling fate. Now, he's being put in the uncomfortable position of having to re-learn that fate can be important. He has to reshape his perception of himself as the guy who fights the universe's plans to being the guy who fights for the universe's plans.
In many ways, this is a grating transition. We like Dean the most when he is yelling at the big guys (angels, demons, etc.) and telling them to stop screwing around. The character is learning some humility, and, as an audience, we're just beginning to come to grips with that idea.
Dean recently stopped a major planned event in the history of mankind (heaven vs. hell), and he accomplished that feat by putting his own beliefs above what everybody else was calling fate. Now, he's being put in the uncomfortable position of having to re-learn that fate can be important. He has to reshape his perception of himself as the guy who fights the universe's plans to being the guy who fights for the universe's plans.
In many ways, this is a grating transition. We like Dean the most when he is yelling at the big guys (angels, demons, etc.) and telling them to stop screwing around. The character is learning some humility, and, as an audience, we're just beginning to come to grips with that idea.
Checking in from the conference--I HATE being here. We're getting absolutely nothing done because of these obstructive a-holes. It burns me that I missed Supernatural for this nonsense, but work has a way of intruding on the leisure time. 
I should be home by Wednesday. Maybe then I can watch online. It was good? 
I should be home by Wednesday. Maybe then I can watch online. It was good? 
Well apparently my posts about the episode were more involving than the episode itself based on the direction this thread has taken. It seems if you don't share the same opinion with Servo and Aragorn it makes them extremely defensive--which for frequent visitors such as those two to a discussion board they should be used to by now.
Why do I get the idea that there's going to be a Big Reveal about the nature of the Supernatural universe that will recontextualize both heaven and hell and their roles?
Ever since Supernatural "went there" and actually explored what Heaven is, something has seemed wrong. "Heaven" in Supernatural is basically a really posh set of holding cells for souls, where they wait around while being entertained. Well entertained, but still - a very different version of the afterlife by most standards of fantasy.
Now we're hearing all this business about how valuable souls are, that they mean something beyond what Dean and Sam have ever encountered.... and Death himself seems to not know about some big thing that's going on, despite being otherwise omnipotent?
Yeah, something is up.
Say, Heaven as it is now (and has been for thousands of years) is just a temporary stage in some bigger cycle that was fated to occur, and the apocalypse being canceled, and God being out to lunch, is all going to come to a probably ugly head shortly.
Ever since Supernatural "went there" and actually explored what Heaven is, something has seemed wrong. "Heaven" in Supernatural is basically a really posh set of holding cells for souls, where they wait around while being entertained. Well entertained, but still - a very different version of the afterlife by most standards of fantasy.
Now we're hearing all this business about how valuable souls are, that they mean something beyond what Dean and Sam have ever encountered.... and Death himself seems to not know about some big thing that's going on, despite being otherwise omnipotent?
Yeah, something is up.
Say, Heaven as it is now (and has been for thousands of years) is just a temporary stage in some bigger cycle that was fated to occur, and the apocalypse being canceled, and God being out to lunch, is all going to come to a probably ugly head shortly.
So a one-liner about startrekwatcher that is based in truth is somehow more involving than actual questions/statements I posted about the episode?
There's a difference between having a difference of opinion and being Stewey. I don't see what you get out of wasting your time on a show you don't like anymore just to tell everyone how right you are not to like it over and over and over again.
I actually started watching Supernatural from the start on Blu-ray since I didn't watch the first few seasons and contemplated doing a thread on it, but decided against it because of a couple die hards here who would rip me a new one for thinking differently about the show than they do... and because you'd hijack the thread.
There's a difference between having a difference of opinion and being Stewey. I don't see what you get out of wasting your time on a show you don't like anymore just to tell everyone how right you are not to like it over and over and over again.
I actually started watching Supernatural from the start on Blu-ray since I didn't watch the first few seasons and contemplated doing a thread on it, but decided against it because of a couple die hards here who would rip me a new one for thinking differently about the show than they do... and because you'd hijack the thread.
Stewey never liked ENT and picked it apart on the most superficial and dumbest reasons you could imagine. I think I'm entitled to not be compared to someone like that--since I actually watched SN from the beginning and had a lot of positive things to say about it--but that doesn't make me obligated to be a gusher praising it when I don't feel it is living up to the standard the show itself set that made me a fan to begin with. I've always been that way--even my favorite shows disappointed me at times and most came off the rails because they went on longer than they should have but I wanted to see them through until the end.
Does that mean I should stop watching them? I mean I did become invested in them in the good years and want to see how they end--to me that's different than *never* liking a show and continuing to watch it just to bash it or irk fans. I watched and couldn't stand Caprica, V, Life on Mars, True Blood, Rubicon, The Walking Dead, Mad Men, No Ordinary Family, SGU to name a few but you'd be hard-pressed to see me in those weekly threads criticizing them--because I never cared about the series or the characers to be disappointed when they fall short in my opinion.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their opinion--but this is a discussion board which is a place where people come to share how they feel about a show--otherwise why come or participate if you aren't interested in seeing a different perspective potentially.
The only die-hard fans I know of are Dorian and mswood and I've never seen nor would I ever think they would rip you or anyone else a new one. They might disagree or try to share their perspective but go after you...no.
You said the very same thing in OdoWanKenobi's LOST thread and frankly I don't get it. If I were to start a thread I'd hope a lot of people would post in it--there is nothing more boring than a thread with little activity.
I'm sorry--well no I'm really not sorry...if you equate me attempting to articulate what I liked/didn't like about an episode or series in the hopes of being a launching pad for further discussion to somehow hijacking a thread. Nothing is stopping you from debating my points or anyone else's or having your say in as long or as short a post you would like.
Like I said, though I won't be posting anymore in the SN threads unless I'm really excited about an episode like last season's "Abandon All Hope" or "My Bloody Valentine". My posts haven't been all that enlightening I'll freely admit because the episodes lately haven't really made me want to say a whole lot about them--good or bad.
In fact, I've become pretty lukewarm to most tv these days especially after LOST and BSG went off the air. Shows simply aren't as good as they were a decade ago in my opinion and perhaps that is why when one goes through the SFF and Gen Media fora there isn't much discussion or seeming interest in any tv show as far as I can tell.
Guys and gals
Every poster is welcome to come and give their opinion about the show. Love it hate it or be indifferent to it. Startrekwatcher has liked the show previously, he or she doesn't now. Guess what thats a valid opinion.
I thought we are here to talk about the show, not judge someone else on how they feel about the show.
Every poster is welcome to come and give their opinion about the show. Love it hate it or be indifferent to it. Startrekwatcher has liked the show previously, he or she doesn't now. Guess what thats a valid opinion.
I thought we are here to talk about the show, not judge someone else on how they feel about the show.
There were a lot of small lines in this episode that added to the over all plot of the season. Death telling Dean that he and Sam are basically responsible for breaking the natural order of the Universe and Death again telling us that souls are expensive, coveted and fought over by everyone. Didnt tell us why or what the ultimate end game is for getting the most souls but lets hope that gets revealed.
I think Crowley should have been trying to trap a reaper. After Death touches you they come and take you away to where you are supposed to go, Heaven, Hell or Purgatory so they seem to know the way there.
I really dont know why Lucifer and Micheal cant get out of the box unless its spell specific to them. Death, Crowley, random Leprachauns and such all seem to have the ability to go in and get what they want out of it. You would also think that all of these visits would weaken the cage just a bit.
I think Crowley should have been trying to trap a reaper. After Death touches you they come and take you away to where you are supposed to go, Heaven, Hell or Purgatory so they seem to know the way there.
I really dont know why Lucifer and Micheal cant get out of the box unless its spell specific to them. Death, Crowley, random Leprachauns and such all seem to have the ability to go in and get what they want out of it. You would also think that all of these visits would weaken the cage just a bit.
Startrekwatcher, never seen a post from any show that i watch that you liked.
Anyway, kewl episode. So now we know where the whole Purgatory storyline fits.
So Sam is back, the wall will break, dean will kill him to end the suffering, and his soul goes to Purgatory since its too screwed up for hell nor heaven.
So they find Purgatory to get his soul back.
But does Purgatory in this show make souls ready for heaven or hell?
Anyway, kewl episode. So now we know where the whole Purgatory storyline fits.
So Sam is back, the wall will break, dean will kill him to end the suffering, and his soul goes to Purgatory since its too screwed up for hell nor heaven.
So they find Purgatory to get his soul back.
But does Purgatory in this show make souls ready for heaven or hell?
Not having seen the episode yet--hello from the great western US, still not back--I'd say that Purgatory might be the "real" heaven. Or I could be full of shit. Wish me luck with the sexist a-holes I have to deal with today. Oy. 
They are locked in a cage that's why they can't get out. I don't see really why that is all that astonishing. Of course, supernatural entities can come and go to Hell and open and close the cage just like I can put my dog in a cage and he can't get out.
So? All that means is we have different tastes in entertainment--hardly surprising--unless you are implying that my opinion should match your tastes in tv programming because you are the ultimate arbiter of what's good? I don't even know what shows you are referring to--Dr Who? I've never even posted in the Who forum since I watched the first two episodes that aired in the US on SyFy and found them to be horribly campy. I prefer more grounded realistic drama.
GITTER DONE, DORIAN!
I kind of like the idea that there's a power struggle over souls between the 3 realms. For what purpose, you say? Answer, bragging rights.
I kind of like the idea that there's a power struggle over souls between the 3 realms. For what purpose, you say? Answer, bragging rights.
Exactly. It's a cage designed to hold an Angel. Whatever safeguards keep angels in, allow for others to come and go.
I sorta like it but it is horribly uneven with so-so characters. When it dedicates episodes to the mythology and doesn't focus too much on the characters it is brilliant but when it does stale predictable one-offs it is nothing more than a less interesting and watered-down The X-Files. Also the only interesting character and actor is John Noble as Walter Bishop--Anna Torv's acting is mediocre, Olivia is dull, Peter is wall paper and the attempt to inject romance was a bad idea. But I have enjoyed it more than SN this season and plan to watch Fringe live on Fridays in Jan and DVR SN.
Supernatural has a much better cast than Fringe. Walter is the only one with any gravitas or screen presence whatsoever. Is Pacey still on that show? He still looks like a boy.
I get to fly home tomorrow!!! Thanks, Obiwan Shinobi. I'm hanging in there.
Maybe I'll get a date at airport security
I get to fly home tomorrow!!! Thanks, Obiwan Shinobi. I'm hanging in there.
Maybe I'll get a date at airport securitySimilar threads
