Here's a trailer for the graphic novel version--I thought it was an animated film, but this makes me want an animated version even more now.
Superman
- Thread starter urbandefault
- Start date
Here's a trailer for the graphic novel version--I thought it was an animated film, but this makes me want an animated version even more now.
I have no idea how you can conclude this would be the inevitable result of Lois knowing the secret. She has known it in the comics (except for the “New 52” interregnum) for decades, without it making a joke of the character — quite the contrary, since she was far more of a joke in the Silver Age, precisely because she didn’t know and was always scheming to find out. Secret identity shenanigans in general are much more susceptible to being treated as comedic fodder. Not to mention that Lois knows in the Snyderverse, and that’s not exactly a laff riot.
Unless it’s simply that you don’t trust the Salkinds to have handled it properly? If so, it still strikes me as a leap to assume they would have gone full-farce with it.
(And in response to suarezguy’s original question: It’s always better when Lois knows.)
One of the best things of the Byrne era was restructuring Clark and Lois as a power couple. The family dynamic of that era, along with the Kents, really brought out an aspect of the character that we had never seen before.
A question was answered using the only relevant information regarding what was happening to that series: the Salkinds took the Superman property into sitcom land, and even in S3, Lois was erratic (which had nothing to do with Kidder's drug problem at the time), and with that terrible characterization, her knowing Superman"s identity would lead to sitcom hijinks, and/or having Lois constantly exploiting a relationship all to have him rescue her as if he were on a schedule. That's all that would be left, since the days of Salkinds-Lois acting like a reporter ended in the first film. After that, she was reduced to a sideshow for laughs.
If they were going to keep Lois as someone who knew Superman and Clark were the same, there would be a fundamental change in how the franchise went. They actually would have broken ground to my knowledge since she didn't know Clark was Superman in the comics at the time. So the concept would have been groundbreaking. It probably wouldn't have been too popular at the time.
But let's say they went for that bold decision. I think they would have had no reason to break Lois and Clark up. They would have had to have been more careful, but there would be no reason for Lois and Clark not to be together.
And if you factor that in, then I think it goes similarly to other versions where she knew.
She becomes an ally rather than a hindrance. Superman III would have to go in a completely different direction. Lana would not be necessary. What made Lana so cool in that movie was that she cared about CLARK, not Superman. In the Salkind films, I think Lana was a better match for Clark.
But that would not be the case in a Superman III where Lois knew, and of course where Kidder wasn't being punished for standing up for Donner.
The Lana subplot would have to be replaced with a Lois subplot.
It would still be a bad movie though since Pryor had no business being in a Superman movie.
But let's say they went for that bold decision. I think they would have had no reason to break Lois and Clark up. They would have had to have been more careful, but there would be no reason for Lois and Clark not to be together.
And if you factor that in, then I think it goes similarly to other versions where she knew.
She becomes an ally rather than a hindrance. Superman III would have to go in a completely different direction. Lana would not be necessary. What made Lana so cool in that movie was that she cared about CLARK, not Superman. In the Salkind films, I think Lana was a better match for Clark.
But that would not be the case in a Superman III where Lois knew, and of course where Kidder wasn't being punished for standing up for Donner.
The Lana subplot would have to be replaced with a Lois subplot.
It would still be a bad movie though since Pryor had no business being in a Superman movie.
How exactly was Lois erratic in Superman III? All she did was say goodbye to everyone before going on vacation, and then come back right at the end of the movie.
Great point; the Salkind's Lois worshipped Superman as a Prince Charming ideal, while Lana was as genuine a woman with Clark in adulthood as she was in the Smallville / teenage years chapter of the first film. Clark was being himself around Lana--the old roots running deep, which were the far and away best scenes from Superman III. If only III was not so mishandled as a sitcom that just so happened to have a superhero in it, Lana's addition could have been the start of an interesting sub-plot between Clark and Lana.
Exactly. Adding Pryor was the equivalent of setting off a grenade in the middle of a library: loud, out of place, and shattering the natural feel of the environment. Permanent damage. Even if the Salkinds had not sold off the property to Cannon. the direction they selected for the third film was such a drastic left turn that any fourth film would have needed to be something close to a reboot, just to separate the idea of overt comedy in a Superman film.
It was in her every moment on screen. At that point, she was more of a Lois caricature than the stronger personality from the first movie.
You'll have to be more specific. I'm just not sure I see how her two short scenes in Superman III give you that impression. She goes on vacation, gets out of a kidnapping situation (off screen) and comes back to the Planet with a hard-hitting piece on corruption. How is she not "the stronger personality from the first movie"?
Let's not pretend Superman III was the first time we had unrealistic, over-the-top comedy in a Superman film. In Superman II, during a colossal Metropolis smack-down we had people rollerskating backwards, people being hit in the face with ice cream, and a guy who doesn't get off the phone even though he is being physically blown down the street. Even the first film has comedy that some people feel went over the line into farce. I personally love 99% of the comedy in the first film, but I can see why some don't.
S2 already took it way too far. But S3 definitely did also take it way too further.
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Superman can literally see how high druggies are.
When Prior gave him the Kryptonite, its amazing that Clark let him drive away.
When Prior gave him the Kryptonite, its amazing that Clark let him drive away.
For me, this is unquestionably such a scene.
Sergeant Hayley : She's having trouble breathing sir. What do you think?
Major : Well, I suggest a vigorous chest massage, and if that doesn't work, uh, mouth-to-mouth.
Sergeant Hayley : [enthusiastically] Yes, sir!
[bends to the task]
Major : [the Major pulls him to his feet] Sergeant, I won't have one of my men doing anything I wouldn't be prepared to do myself.
Sergeant Hayley : [disappointed] Yeah, but, sir!
Major : Get an ambulance. All right, men. Gather around. About face!
Major : Well, I suggest a vigorous chest massage, and if that doesn't work, uh, mouth-to-mouth.
Sergeant Hayley : [enthusiastically] Yes, sir!
[bends to the task]
Major : [the Major pulls him to his feet] Sergeant, I won't have one of my men doing anything I wouldn't be prepared to do myself.
Sergeant Hayley : [disappointed] Yeah, but, sir!
Major : Get an ambulance. All right, men. Gather around. About face!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078346/characters/nm0001306
I'll take a silly Superman movie over a morosely self-serious one any day. I'm not going to say that I love Pryor in Superman III, but he's entertaining enough. And the film has some great stuff going for it, like the junkyard battle (a brilliant visual metaphor of Clark's fundamental humanity asserting itself to save the day) and O'Toole's luminous Lana.
I recently ranked all the Superman movies in another thread, but it makes a lot more sense here:
Superman
Superman II
Superman and the Mole Men
Superman III
Superman Returns
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Man of Steel
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Justice League
I recently ranked all the Superman movies in another thread, but it makes a lot more sense here:
Superman
Superman II
Superman and the Mole Men
Superman III
Superman Returns
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Man of Steel
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Justice League
Where do you rank the Donner Cut of Superman II or the different cuts of Superman?
That ... is an interesting question. I don't really think the different cuts of Superman '78 are distinct enough to warrant individual rankings. I would say my favorite among them, as a standalone proposition, probably remains the theatrical cut (though I'm certainly glad to have the others).
I do think the 2001 "Special Edition" version, however, works better than the theatrical as a companion to the "Donner Cut" of Superman II. The additional bits with Lois and with Jor-El's Fortress hologram in the SE create a better dramatic and thematic throughline with the Donner Cut, in terms of the romance with Lois and (especially) of Superman's relationship with his Kryptonian father. (The latter theme, of course, is lost altogether in the theatrical cut of II.)
I think the Donner Cut of II, for all its limitations, is superior in many respects to the theatrical cut, and if I were to treat them as separate rankings, I guess I would put it slightly higher.
1. Superman (1978) / Man of Steel
2. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
3. Superman II
4. Kirk Alyn's Superman (1948) / Atom Man vs. Superman (1950)
The rest, particularly the wrongheaded sitcom disaster that was 90% of Superman III, Superman IV - The Quest for Peace and the dreary The Adventures of Superman (George Reeves) can be left on a dusty shelf and forgotten.
I was limiting my own list to feature films, so the serials didn't qualify, but yeah, they're a lot of fun.
But, this now:
Reeves gives Reeve his only plausible competition for Best Screen Superman Ever.
I’d say it was more applicable for Clark in a pre-1980s comics context, but potayto/potahto.
Then again, when talking about Superman actors, John Haymes Newton definitely casts a long shadow:I’d say it was more applicable for Clark in a pre-1980s comics context, but potayto/potahto.
The only thing wrong with the Donner cut is that it takes out one of Superman's best lines:
"General...would you care to step outside?"
Somehow, the bit about "freedom of the press" doesn't have the same gravitas. The original line was much more menacing, like Supes and Zod are gonna have a SERIOUS throwdown.
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