Superman

[Crisp Conditions]

I doubt they would have time travelled at the end of both movies, which means that the time travel at the end of movie one only happened because movie two shit the bed.

What was the original non time travel end to the Superman The Movie?

My understanding is that the time travel ending was originally intended for the second film, but plans changed, and it was folded into the first film. I'm afraid I just don't know enough about what went on that caused all of the changes. Money and time I suspect were the issues? Apologies, I could be totally wrong about everything, here.

One thing I like about the Donner Cut of S(II), the thing I like most actually, maybe even love, is how Superman tossing the first missile into space is what frees Zod and gang from the Phantom Zone. No need for the Eiffel Tower sequence, eh. I originally streamed the Cut cold, so that connection and plot sequence were a quite an eye-opener for me. It seems plausible that that was the original intention, but whether it was, how the detonation of the other missile would have played out, and whether there were originally even supposed to be two missiles, I haven't a clue. Was the first film to have ended on the cliffhanger of the super-villains being freed? I'm sorry, I don't know.

I apologize, I can't go down the rabbit hole of figuring it all out right now, researching and vetting sources. But if anyone does know what the original intention was for the two Donner films, I'd definitely like to know, too.

 

[The Realist]

Was the first film to have ended on the cliffhanger of the super-villains being freed?

It was.

 

[JD]

There haven’t. That image is, obviously, AI-generated, and it created Kryptos that never actually existed. Much like it put Welling and Vandervoort in costumes they never wore.

Though the fact that several of the dogs don’t have capes may mean they’re not supposed to be Kryptos at all, at least not in the super-sense. The Smallville dog was briefly super, thanks to human experimentation, but he didn't stay that way. And Clark did get a (non-super) dog in the final episode of S&L. No idea where the DCEU pooch comes from, though.

OK, that makes a lot more sense than my having totally missed that many different versions of Krypto.

Does the Wisdom of Solomon actually work, because the entire (homeless) Marvel Family should have figured out that Clark is Superman from just reading back issues of the daily planet they are sleeping under on the street?

The Marvels/Shazams are homeless in the comics?

 

[Santa Kang]

I'm writing a Green Lantern story set in a version of 1968 all about selling toys door to door across the heartland, that really spun-out into the whole DCU, but there is a lot of fun in writing Lois in the dark, and almost just almost completely figuring it out over and over again.

Does the Wisdom of Solomon actually work, because the entire (homeless) Marvel Family should have figured out that Clark is Superman from just reading back issues of the daily planet they are sleeping under on the street?

They don't get the Planet in Fawcett City. The radio waves from WHIZ radio keep them warm.

 

[Guy Gardener]

OK, that makes a lot more sense than my having totally missed that many different versions of Krypto.

The Marvels/Shazams are homeless in the comics?

ORPHAN Billy was Homeless waaaaaay back in the BEGINNING because Orphanages in the 1930s suck.

In the first movie Billy kept running away from group homes to look for his mommy which means that he was a child out there with no roof, no money, no superpowers and no adult supervision until the police took him back to CPS that wasn't completely founded until 1974.

Eventually "Uncle Dudly" came into play, who went by the super hero Monicker "Uncle Marvel" after Billy gave him a hit, but unfortunately the powers of Shazam did not grow his hair back, sucked in his gut, or made the 50 year old any younger.

 

[Santa Kang]

ORPHAN Billy was Homeless waaaaaay back in the BEGINNING because Orphanages in the 1930s suck.

In the first movie Billy kept running away from group homes to look for his mommy which means that he was a child out there with no roof, no money, no superpowers and no adult supervision until the police took him back to CPS that wasn't completely founded until 1974.

Billy and Freddy were both street orphans. Mary got to live in a nice house in suburbia.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Billy and Freddy were both street orphans. Mary got to live in a nice house in suburbia.

Don't Forget Kid Eternity.

 

[Santa Kang]

Don't Forget Kid Eternity.

Retcon

 

[kirk55555]

Superman 2 has Superman thoughtlessly give up his powers to be with his deranged stalker, sadistically torture Zod for little to no reason, violate Lois' mind without her permission and then go back and beat up that Trucker in petty revenge for what happened earlier.

I'll never get why folks thought it was a good movie to start with.

I literally can't take this seriously. "Deranged Stalker", WTF Also that trucker deserved what he got, and Superman is not above giving an asshole their comeuppance.He didn't torture Zod (or kill him, as they filmed scenes of Zod's gang being arrested so the film's intention was not for Zod and co to be dead). Also its fine to protect his secret identity, he didn't "violate" anything (certainly not any more then, say, Professor X would do casually), erasing a memory is extreme but justified in the context of a superhero world and its not like he did it on a whim.

What, the writers couldn't develop the story with Lois actually knowing about Clark and helping him as a REAL partner? She was "too weak" to handle it?

This is a wild complaint, seeing as so many Superman live action project since the 90s have been Lois Lane stories where she is the main character but get Superman added to the title to try to trick fans into watching. God forbid Lois isn't treated like god's gift to the Superman franchise and takes the back seat she should have instead of being the main focus of everything. Outside of Smallville and maybe Man of Steel every Superman focused live action project worships Lois Lane like she's the draw of a Superman story over Clark/Superman.

If you want to watch stories about Lois watch Lois & Clark or Superman & Lois or Superman Returns or Superman (2025), those are all Lois Lane stories where Superman/Clark is barely more then a supporting character.

 

[The Realist]

This is a wild complaint, seeing as so many Superman live action project since the 90s have been Lois Lane stories where she is the main character but get Superman added to the title to try to trick fans into watching. God forbid Lois isn't treated like god's gift to the Superman franchise and takes the back seat she should have instead of being the main focus of everything. Outside of Smallville and maybe Man of Steel every Superman focused live action project worships Lois Lane like she's the draw of a Superman story over Clark/Superman.

If you want to watch stories about Lois watch Lois & Clark or Superman & Lois or Superman Returns or Superman (2025), those are all Lois Lane stories where Superman/Clark is barely more then a supporting character.

https://www.betterhelp.com/

 

[Set Harth]

Also its fine to protect his secret identity, he didn't "violate" anything (certainly not any more then, say, Professor X would do casually), erasing a memory is extreme but justified in the context of a superhero world and its not like he did it on a whim.

Funny you should mention Professor X... when his son did the same thing, he was branded a rapist.

 

[kirk55555]

https://www.betterhelp.com/

The irony that "betterhelp" has a terrible reputation just makes this comment more ridiculous. If someone wanting Superman to be the main character in Superman stories bothers you I really think that's your problem.

Funny you should mention Professor X... when his son did the same thing, he was branded a rapist.

I don't recall Legion doing something like that or at least not getting in trouble for telepathic stuff, unless it was in that terrible FX show which doesn't count because it didn't resemble the actual character in any way. Also, every telepathic X-Men member has changed or erased memories, especially in the case of, say, making people forget that they saw them or that a certain event happened. In the end superhero worlds are not the real world, regardless of what Snyder or Nolan might tell you. Things are different in the context of the world they're in.

 

[Anwar]

I literally can't take this seriously. "Deranged Stalker", WTF

Well, she was. Kidder' Lois was a near illiterate, chain smoking scatterbrain screwball. That whole gun thing to prove Clark was Superman was nuts too.

Heck, the movies gave us far better love interests in Lana in 3 and Lacy from "Quest for Peace".

Also that trucker deserved what he got, and Superman is not above giving an asshole their comeuppance.

It still makes Superman come off as petty and a bit of a bully himself.

He didn't torture Zod

Look at his face when he pointlessly crushes Zods' hand.

Also its fine to protect his secret identity, he didn't "violate" anything

Except...er...Lois' mind. Without her permission.

Amy Adams' Lois worked just fine with knowing who Clark was, so did Bitsie Tulloch and now Rachel Brosnahan. It works if you put in the effort and you have the guts to not be shackled to outdated plot points that were questionable to begin with (The Superman/Lois/Clark triangle).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Funny you should mention Professor X... when his son did the same thing, he was branded a rapist.

David was crazy, as well as not David most of the time.

Chuck's attempts to smother his own Epstein fantasy's about Jean gave us Onslaught.

Om my...

Did Charles "Gay Conversion Camp" Bobby?

 

[The Realist]

Amy Adams' Lois worked just fine with knowing who Clark was, so did Bitsie Tulloch and now Rachel Brosnahan.

All three did much more than work fine — they gave us the best live-action Lois Lane portrayals to date.

Lois knowing Clark’s identity enhances her character’s role, her relationship with Clark, and the storytelling in general. It’s a win in every category.

 

[Set Harth]

Except...er...Lois' mind. Without her permission.

I don't remember a single person complaining about it at the time.

In the end superhero worlds are not the real world, regardless of what Snyder or Nolan might tell you.

 

[Anwar]

I don't remember a single person complaining about it at the time.

I'm sure there were a few. And I definitely know that by the 2000s people who went back to watch it felt that way.

What happened was that writers who had to guts to say "No, not everything done back then was good" did their own deconstructionist takes on what they disliked about old Superhero ideas (Kurt Busiek in Astro City, Mark Waid in Irredeemable) and the realization that this older stuff was actually pretty messed up stuck and freed writers to no longer be shackled to them.

 

[Set Harth]

Lois was a near illiterate

Have you picked up a newspaper lately?

 

[JD]

It still makes Superman come off as petty and a bit of a bully himself.

That kind of thing is pretty much a standard part of these kind of stories.

Look at his face when he pointlessly crushes Zods' hand.

Superman has been pretty brutal with his enemies in other stories.

Except...er...Lois' mind. Without her permission.

This is pretty much a standard part of these kind of stories at the time, so it's not really fair to hold it against the movie.

Amy Adams' Lois worked just fine with knowing who Clark was, so did Bitsie Tulloch and now Rachel Brosnahan. It works if you put in the effort and you have the guts to not be shackled to outdated plot points that were questionable to begin with (The Superman/Lois/Clark triangle).

Lois not knowing was still the standard at the time the first two movies, at least, were made. All of your examples came out long after Lois finding out about Clark being Superman, and remembering it, had become a more common part of the comics and other adaptations.

 

[Kai "the spy"]