Supergirl - Season Four

[Jayson1]

Yet this particular show's use of the trope is clearly a reaction to Trump's election. President Marsdin was established in the show at a point when everyone pretty much expected that Hillary Clinton was likely to be our next president, so she was a progressive female POTUS; but once Trump happened, keeping Marsdin in power would've precluded doing social commentary on current events and made the show feel out of touch. So they had to tell a story in which Marsdin was removed and replaced with an old white male successor who was sympathetic to the agendas of anti-immigrant hate groups.

I agree but they way shows have gone after Trump and Trumpism have become a kind of new cliche or trope. I am ready for tv shows and movies to start throwing some new curves because it can get pretty predictable. One thing I like about Lex Luthor is he is nothing like Trump. Cultured and smart and frankly knows how to talk well. Also I think he cares about Lena in his own warped way. I think he is angry that he feels she hasn't lived up to her potential and wants to punish her for letting herself down. Evil of course but in a twisted Lex Luthor way in how he shows he cares about someone.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

Equating Trump to Luthor is a grave insult to the latter. They may be comparable in terms of ego and evil, but Luthor's cranium houses the intellectual capacity of ten thousand Trumps combined.

And Luthor is a fictional character!

 

[Christopher]

I agree but they way shows have gone after Trump and Trumpism have become a kind of new cliche or trope. I am ready for tv shows and movies to start throwing some new curves because it can get pretty predictable.

Unfortunately, the issue remains disturbingly relevant in real life, and we ignore it at our peril.

 

[crookeddy]

Unfortunately, the issue remains disturbingly relevant in real life, and we ignore it at our peril.

Is there a single MAGA type that became convinced that their hero Trump is bad because of watching a show? I don't think so. It's only feeding the echo chamber.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Equating Trump to Luthor is a grave insult to the latter. They may be comparable in terms of ego and evil, but Luthor's cranium houses the intellectual capacity of ten thousand Trumps combined.

Who's equating Trump to Luthor?

 

[Guy Gardener]

DC Comics did, 30 years ago.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

DC Comics did, 30 years ago.

I brought up that cover, but drawing inspiration from Trump for the depiction of Luthor is not the same as equating them.

 

[Christopher]

I brought up that cover, but drawing inspiration from Trump for the depiction of Luthor is not the same as equating them.

I think that dated from a time when the myth propagated by that book of Trump as a brilliant businessman was still believed by most people outside of New York City (people there always knew he was a con man and an imbecile), so you could get away with such a comparison. These days he has Twitter, so everyone can see he's a twit.

 

[Charles Phipps]

One of the problems these shows tend to have is that they always portray the government as evil, rather than law enforcement trying to do their jobs just like the heroes are. The US government and Supergirl should be allies, not enemies. Can't have that though because Trump won and the writers are still butthurt over that.

The fact that government authorities are an inherent good is literally the opposite of the principles this country was founded on. Superman was also established as an anti-establishment figure. It was only the Comics Code Authority (an enemy of artistry and free speech) that forced him to become a sounding board for the system.

Evil government conspiracies cracking down on aliens and mutants and superheroes are a sci-fi/comic-book cliche that predates Trump's election by decades.

Agreed.

 

[Christopher]

The fact that government authorities are an inherent good is literally the opposite of the principles this country was founded on.

Well, in the sense that it built in a system of checks and balances between branches of government so that flaws or corruption in one could be cancelled out by the others -- which still makes government necessary and valuable, just in need of inbuilt safeguards. The Founders weren't anarchists, and they sure as hell weren't libertarians. They knew we needed a government, but it needed to be representative of and answerable to the people.

 

[theenglish]

Kara should have turned herself in. Willingly. By not doing so, she is deciding that she is above the law. And she does come off like she's having a tantrum. Ignoring problems do not make them go away, and how can Supergirl be considered a beacon of the law when she acts above it and doesn't follow it when the law goes against what she wants to do?

This is completely wrong. Supergirl is a beacon of "truth and justice" not the law. Law's can be, and often are, unethical and unjust. And it is clear that the President is pushing an unethical, unjust, and immoral agenda in the series. Superman and Supergirl are not going to defend unjust laws whether they exist in Saudi Arabia or in the U.S.

And yes, the laws and principals upon which the U.S. was founded are designed to prevent a President from being a unilateral dictator. There are tools designed to bring down that President when and if necessary.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This is completely wrong. Supergirl is a beacon of "truth and justice" not the law. Law's can be, and often are, unethical and unjust.

Supergirl exists and operates as an unofficial enforcer of laws in a nation built on laws. There's no getting around that.. If she disagrees with a law or political motion fine, but for anyone to threaten "they can try to stop me" after she's been accused of terrorism is the height of arrogance and stupidity, making her very real danger she's been set up to be.

 

[Jayson1]

Unfortunately, the issue remains disturbingly relevant in real life, and we ignore it at our peril.

I agree but their is lots of issues and ways to go about it. For example they had a British bad guy and I don't even think Brexit even came up once on the show.

Jason

 

[theenglish]

Supergirl exists and operates as an unofficial enforcer of laws in a nation built on laws. There's no getting around that.. If she disagrees with a law or political motion fine, but for anyone to threaten "they can try to stop me" after she's been accused of terrorism is the height of arrogance and stupidity, making her very real danger she's been set up to be.

So if Supergirl landed in Kansas in 1850, she should be okay with hunting down and returning escaped slaves to their owners.

If she landed in Uganda, she should be turning gays into the government so they can be executed.

If she landed in Saudi Arabia, she should be okay stoning people for speaking out against the government.

etc....

 

[Charles Phipps]

In simple terms, when the president is advocating the country's aliens fates being controlled by a monster (and this is funny book politics at this point not actual politics - even at my worst criticisms I don't think Trump would appoint Timothy McVeigh or other domestic terrorist to be in charge of Homeland Security like this crazy President has), the situation is enough to warrant civil disobedience.

Lockwood is a monster and surrendering to him is insane.

Doubly so with Lex Luthor manipulating the situation.

 

[Christopher]

(and this is funny book politics at this point not actual politics - even at my worst criticisms I don't think Trump would appoint Timothy McVeigh or other domestic terrorist to be in charge of Homeland Security like this crazy President has)

I'd suggest that you ought to pay closer attention to Stephen Miller. He hasn't gone that far, but the difference is arguably just one of degree.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

So if Supergirl landed in Kansas in 1850, she should be okay with hunting down and returning escaped slaves to their owners.

If she landed in Uganda, she should be turning gays into the government so they can be executed.

If she landed in Saudi Arabia, she should be okay stoning people for speaking out against the government.

etc....

Textbook strawman argument, since my point was not about following the anti-alien directives, but as an identified super powered, lawless threat to humanity, she should not run around thinking she is some enforcer of the law, when she's a fugitive who should not be so arrogant / drunk with power that she dares the legal representatives to stop her. Again, she only provides a wealth of evidence to support the Lex plot that she is that aforementioned super powered, lawless threat to humanity.

 

[The Realist]

Textbook strawman argument, since my point was not about following the anti-alien directives, but as an identified super powered, lawless threat to humanity, she should not run around thinking she is some enforcer of the law, when she's a fugitive who should not be so arrogant / drunk with power that she dares the legal representatives to stop her. Again, she only provides a wealth of evidence to support the Lex plot that she is that aforementioned super powered, lawless threat to humanity.

I'm sure you'll have a reason Jefferson Pierce was not similarly obliged to turn himself in when he was framed for Lady Eve's murder, and I look forward to the rhetorical acrobatics.

 

[theenglish]

Textbook strawman argument, since my point was not about following the anti-alien directives, but as an identified super powered, lawless threat to humanity, she should not run around thinking she is some enforcer of the law, when she's a fugitive who should not be so arrogant / drunk with power that she dares the legal representatives to stop her. Again, she only provides a wealth of evidence to support the Lex plot that she is that aforementioned super powered, lawless threat to humanity.

You ignore what I say and then ramble on about something that makes no sense. My argument was not a strawman--they were only taking your arguments to their logical extension.

She is an "identified super powered, lawless threat" only because a corrupt, tyrannical president has manipulated the letter of the law--creating a law that is unjust and unethical. (I can't wait to hear your opinion of The Handmaid's Tale.)

You are saying that (in the real world--not a strawman) that Jews should have self-identified and come forward in 1939-40 in Europe; that homosexuals should self-identify in Uganda, political dissidents should come forward in Saudi Arabia, Luke and the rebellion should have thrown down their weapons and surrendered (okay, not the real world).

 

[Jayson1]

The reason Supergirl or Superman don't get involved in what governments do is because then people listen to people like Lex Luthor or will turn to a Lockwood because it means you can't trust someone with that kind of power who makes unilateral choices on their own. They will turn to someone who offers safety no matter the price.

One thing common in comic book stories I have noticed is the rise of superheros often come with the rise of super villians who bring a level of danger to all of humanity that even the most evil human government can bring. As in world ending danger.

Jason