Supergirl - Season Four

[Finn]

I'm starting to be convinced that it's either lazy writing or Baker has an ulterior motive/agenda. Ben Lockwood has nothing to do with that satellite and I haven't seen anything to suggest Lex was, and Haley was concerned that she didn't know about it.

It may be possible there's an unseen and yet to be mentioned organization that's Baker is secretly working with Maybe not

 

[Kirk Prime]

Some interesting points made.

Kara should have turned herself in. Willingly. By not doing so, she is deciding that she is above the law. And she does come off like she's having a tantrum. Ignoring problems do not make them go away, and how can Supergirl be considered a beacon of the law when she acts above it and doesn't follow it when the law goes against what she wants to do?

That's not a hero. And that's a problem. Supergirl hasn't been very likeable this season.

Supergirl isn't supposed to be an "ends justify the means" character.

 

[Kemaiku]

All superheroes do that though, I mean Batman should have been jailed so many times over for being a civilian operating military grade hardware in public, Superman violated borders and sovereignty everywhere he flew etc

 

[Christopher]

I mean Batman should have been jailed so many times over for being a civilian operating military grade hardware in public

One of many good arguments against the movies' tendency to show Batman using heavy weapons. Comics Batman hates guns.

 

[Kirk Prime]

All superheroes do that though, I mean Batman should have been jailed so many times over for being a civilian operating military grade hardware in public, Superman violated borders and sovereignty everywhere he flew etc

I think there's a difference between flying over borders to save lives and ignoring being public enemy number 1. Supergirl was seen attacking the White House, and even though she's innocent, not turning herself in casts a lot of doubt on her. If she wanted to do the most good, turning herself in is exactly what she should have done to show she had nothing to hide.

 

[Kemaiku]

One of many good arguments against the movies' tendency to show Batman using heavy weapons. Comics Batman hates guns.

Many iterations of the character have been more subtle and shown Batman with appropriate hesitation. Newer versions have lost the plot.

Although the point stands, superheroes have always been above the law, practising dangerous self centered vigilanty justice. Guess when it's a dick in those tights, people care a lot less what they do.

 

[Kirk Prime]

To an extent you're right, but there's a difference between small time and big time crimes. Supergirl is accused of a big time crime and is running like a fugitive. Superman was never a fugitive because he flies over borders.

This is also different than say a metahuman attacking civilians. If that metahuman is more powerful than conventional weaponry, and a citizen can end the threat even better than the cops, it isn't a crime. Defense of others is a defense.

Now the case of Batman with heavy artillery is a fair complaint, and yes, he should either be deputized or he shouldn't be using that weaponry.

 

[Christopher]

Although the point stands, superheroes have always been above the law, practising dangerous self centered vigilanty justice.

Not always. From about 1942-3 until the '86 reboot, Batman and Robin were treated as officially authorized law enforcement officers. I'd say most superheroes were treated similarly back then. Even the X-Men were portrayed in the '60s as cooperating with a federal intelligence agency (an idea dropped in later comics but reflected in X-Men: First Class). Spider-Man went between being informally tolerated by the law and being actively hunted by them from time to time, but I think he was kind of an exception. The idea that all superheroes have to be lawless vigilantes is of more recent vintage, a product of the "edgier" and more "grounded" revisionism of the 1980s.

Heck, the really racist 1943 Batman film serial had Bruce and Dick as actual federal agents reporting to the government and fighting enemy saboteurs on US soil, like most WWII-era superheroes did.

 

[Jinn]

Not always. From about 1942-3 until the '86 reboot, Batman and Robin were treated as officially authorized law enforcement officers. I'd say most superheroes were treated similarly back then. Even the X-Men were portrayed in the '60s as cooperating with a federal intelligence agency (an idea dropped in later comics but reflected in X-Men: First Class). Spider-Man went between being informally tolerated by the law and being actively hunted by them from time to time, but I think he was kind of an exception. The idea that all superheroes have to be lawless vigilantes is of more recent vintage, a product of the "edgier" and more "grounded" revisionism of the 1980s.

Heck, the really racist 1943 Batman film serial had Bruce and Dick as actual federal agents reporting to the government and fighting enemy saboteurs on US soil, like most WWII-era superheroes did.

And let's not forget Henry Gyrich!

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Kara should have turned herself in. Willingly. By not doing so, she is deciding that she is above the law. And she does come off like she's having a tantrum. Ignoring problems do not make them go away, and how can Supergirl be considered a beacon of the law when she acts above it and doesn't follow it when the law goes against what she wants to do?

Part of the "Malignant narcissism" that the inmate identified. She is in love with being loved because she believes she is--or should be the go-to, all things to all people heroine, when her first duty should be bringing a quick end to the public's fear of her. If Baker is an ally and/or tool of Lex, SG turning herself in would be a great set up to order her execution after a phony escape with Comrade Kara committing more any acts of terror. This would give the government the public support it needs to end the "threat," and once she's out of the way, who stops Lex with Comrade Kara in his back pocket, and Superman off world?

Supergirl isn't supposed to be an "ends justify the means" character.

True. She's not the MCU version of Tony Stark.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Why should Supergirl fear turning herself over to the US government?

It's not like the US government was running a black ops program (season 1) called Cadmus that was secretly studying /experimenting on aliens and kept her stepfather hostage to do said experiments.

It's not like the US government has an actual alien murdering terrorist (season 4) heading a cabinet level department of alien security.

Of course she can expect a fair shake from these guys and turn herself over at the first opportunity, like when she was summoned to the DEO by the signal watch. An action so suspect both Alex and the Colonel knew it would end in ambush.

As for the question re the farce of the prisoners trying to take SG by force, I think Superman said it best when he helped SG that first time in season 2 stop some robbers. They tried to shoot him, then tried to punch him and even he asked them incredulously... "if bullets don't work... WHY try punching???"

My interpretation... stupid people do stupid things.

Speaking of stupid people, every time Lena lies about her research, her nose grows a little longer.

Do you think Lex is going through what James is going through?

 

[Christopher]

As for the question re the farce of the prisoners trying to take SG by force, I think Superman said it best when he helped SG that first time in season 2 stop some robbers. They tried to shoot him, then tried to punch him and even he asked them incredulously... "if bullets don't work... WHY try punching???"

I don't even see why she bothered to fight them. It would've been funnier if they'd kept hurling themselves at her and she'd just strolled through the corridor like they weren't even there. But I guess the stunt team needs chances to show their stuff.

 

[Kirk Prime]

One of the problems these shows tend to have is that they always portray the government as evil, rather than law enforcement trying to do their jobs just like the heroes are. The US government and Supergirl should be allies, not enemies. Can't have that though because Trump won and the writers are still butthurt over that.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Why should Supergirl fear turning herself over to the US government?

It's not like the US government was running a black ops program (season 1) called Cadmus that was secretly studying /experimenting on aliens and kept her stepfather hostage to do said experiments.

It's not like the US government has an actual alien murdering terrorist (season 4) heading a cabinet level department of alien security.

Being a superpowered fugitive who refuses to even lay low is arrogance (if not flat out stupidity) on her part. Her "try to stop me" line is helping her in what way? Its not. She's confirming what people in that world already believe about her (and other aliens with powers)--that she a threat who holds herself above the law, but will continue to do whatever she desires.

As for the question re the farce of the prisoners trying to take SG by force, I think Superman said it best when he helped SG that first time in season 2 stop some robbers. They tried to shoot him, then tried to punch him and even he asked them incredulously... "if bullets don't work... WHY try punching???"

My interpretation... stupid people do stupid things.

They should not continue to be stupid this long into the game. If the Hulk was on the loose, and you witnessed the army shooting him with grenade launchers, only to discover it had no effect, i'm almost certain that if you ran into him, you would not engage in a round of good 'ol fisticuffs. No one is that much of a hard learner.

Speaking of stupid people, every time Lena lies about her research, her nose grows a little longer.

Interesting thing about that is some fans seem to want to sell Lena as some sort of heroine. Her trying to help Supergirl and/or stop Lex may have motivations darker than anything her brother has concocted.

Do you think Lex is going through what James is going through?

He used the same serum, so he should be, unless Lex--knowing Lena would try to save James with the serum--made yet another modification so it would act as "ticking time bomb" in Olsen's system. He has no love for James, so mutating and/or killing him would be a bonus in his campaign against the Kryptonians.

 

[Greg Cox]

One of the problems these shows tend to have is that they always portray the government as evil, rather than law enforcement trying to do their jobs just like the heroes are. The US government and Supergirl should be allies, not enemies. Can't have that though because Trump won and the writers are still butthurt over that.

Evil government conspiracies cracking down on aliens and mutants and superheroes are a sci-fi/comic-book cliche that predates Trump's election by decades.

 

[Christopher]

Evil government conspiracies cracking down on aliens and mutants and superheroes are a sci-fi/comic-book cliche that predates Trump's election by decades.

Yet this particular show's use of the trope is clearly a reaction to Trump's election. President Marsdin was established in the show at a point when everyone pretty much expected that Hillary Clinton was likely to be our next president, so she was a progressive female POTUS; but once Trump happened, keeping Marsdin in power would've precluded doing social commentary on current events and made the show feel out of touch. So they had to tell a story in which Marsdin was removed and replaced with an old white male successor who was sympathetic to the agendas of anti-immigrant hate groups.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Evil government conspiracies cracking down on aliens and mutants and superheroes are a sci-fi/comic-book cliche that predates Trump's election by decades.

Maybe in the Marvel universe, but this isn't what the Superman world is about, and Supergirl is a part of that. There's no question the show changed when Trump won. And it's a shame because if I want politics, I will not turn to TV writers.

Being a superpowered fugitive who refuses to even lay low is arrogance (if not flat out stupidity) on her part. Her "try to stop me" line is helping her in what way? Its not. She's confirming what people in that world already believe about her (and other aliens with powers)--that she a threat who holds herself above the law, but will continue to do whatever she desires.

It's amazing that it takes some bad talent to make Kara, as portrayed by Melissa Benoit--so unlikable.

 

[theenglish]

One of the problems these shows tend to have is that they always portray the government as evil, rather than law enforcement trying to do their jobs just like the heroes are. The US government and Supergirl should be allies, not enemies. Can't have that though because Trump won and the writers are still butthurt over that.

DC already had a super villain as President.

Policies aside, Trump's attitudes on many things are exactly what heroes have always fought against. You think that Superman is going to sit by while white supremacist isolationist attitudes take over the government? That's not going to happen in any contemporary super-hero universe not written by Garth Ennis. No, he's going to help Puerto Rican hurricane victims, Syrian refugees, and poor latinos escaping violence in their home countries, just like he helps the poor and downtrodden in the U.S.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Also, as it appears to need repeating, Trump was an influence on the post-Crisis depiction of Lex Luthor.

Even to the point that, the year Trump ran for president for the first time in the Reform Party primaries was the year that DC had Lex Luthor run for president in the comics. This is not a new thing at all.

 

[The Realist]

Equating Trump to Luthor is a grave insult to the latter. They may be comparable in terms of ego and evil, but Luthor's cranium houses the intellectual capacity of ten thousand Trumps combined.