Supergirl - Season Four

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Unaired Kai "the spy" TV Pilot, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. Geoff Peterson

    Geoff Peterson Robot Skeleton Sidekick Premium Member

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    Back in the day Superman got new powers as often as we change are shirts. ;)
     
  2. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Back in the day, perhaps. This new one just makes him like Parasite.
     
  3. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So are the seasons going to be "Crisis" all the way through?
     
  4. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I doubt it. That would be a logistical nightmare.
     
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    the crossover is only 5 episodes.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kelly might have known that Clark is Superman since years ago.

    Lena was really the last woman standing.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  7. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm thinking it will probably be somebody from the Superman mythos.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The franchise has mixed and matched before. Several of Arrow's big bads -- Deathstroke, Brother Blood, Damien Darhk -- were originally foes of the Titans, Ra's al Ghul was a Batman foe, and Prometheus was loosely based on a Justice League villain. And of course the Legends have borrowed villains from various sources. Although I guess both Supergirl and The Flash have so far stuck with villains from their own turf.
     
  9. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Any chance on Morgan Edge returning. I too thought that the woman at the end was Granny Goodness and we were going to get an Intergang reference. I kind of went WTF with Leviathan, but the organization has resurfaced in recent Superman comics.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, that'd be good. His story arc kind of fizzled when Agents of SHIELD snapped up Adrian Pasdar again.
     
  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But that would not explain why she left his corpse behind. Whether she notified the police or buried herself, there was no reason to leave a decomposing body in a chair...other than the plot convenience of his being around long enough for the Monitor to arrive.

    That, or Lena's no better than Jason Voorhees, and just leaves dead people laying around for others to find....

    The showrunners built him up, with the character forming his position in ways which would mirror something near reality, only to reduce him to the political boogeyman surrogate for certain real world people.None of that was worthy of the Lockwood seen earlier in the season. That's not effective screen writing at all, and a s a result, all of that creative capital was flushed just end on "So THERE! He's beaten and going to jail."

    That's one of the few things this series managed to get right about Lex--that. and his constant disrespect for "Jimmy."

    It was more showrunner wish-fulfilment, and just as unbelievable as Supergirl's "hope" speech inexplicably stopping the control of Myriad back in season one.

    She should make the final transition to villain, and with her legitimate feelings of betrayal, she should naturally take advantage of the exposed secrets. The entire "Kara is my best friend" never sold, and with Lena's history of secret projects, resentment of Supergirl (which vanished into thin air, but should return), and he believing humanity needed an edge all are not the kinds of major character details one finds in the file of an ally to Supergirl and Friends.

    Plot convenience of the worst kind. Its as nonsensical as the Superman's S-shield weapon from Superman II
     
  12. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nah, The Dark Knight Returns is a stone classic (and I say that as someone who loathes many of its subsequent effects on Batman and comics in general). And that was an incredible moment for Superman in the story, one that has stuck powerfully with me in the decades since. It's huge, operatic, like so much of TDKR, and gives Superman a power that feels truly mythic. I was delighted to see it adapted on Supergirl -- though the tone here is different, gentler, less grandiose, beautiful and magical. It's a superb scene.
     
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  13. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    With better writing / less agenda, lockwood would have been bad but not a monster, had an epiphany after his wife died and son turned, be glad to run into supergirl in the finale, team up against luthor and die a hero in a redemption turn. Lex should have taken the presidency, and they could do all the "evil billionaire is in the White House" stories they wanted. Braniac should have geared up as the big bad for next year. Everything with Lena is just a waste of the point of her whole character so far. The best part of the episode was lex as iron Man - and that should have lasted into next season.
     
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  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't think that's better writing; on the contrary, it's less realistic and more cliched. Sometimes people don't have epiphanies like that. Sometimes they're just too far gone in their own hate and self-justification to ever be saved.

    I mean, the Sons of Liberty were basically Nazis. Would you think it was good writing for a Nazi leader to have a nice, cozy redemption story? Or would it just be unrealistic and going too easy on the character?


    I don't think they wanted to devote two whole seasons to that, and I don't think we'd want them to either. Plus I gather their ability to use Cryer and/or Lex is limited.
     
  15. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That would have been a superior arc to the Lockwood=Boogeyman crap pulled from the pool of agenda first, sense later the show's writers and showrunners actively bathe in. Unless Lockwood has a second act where he continues his crusade (the immigration issue was inadequately and unrealistically addressed in the finale), he will be another character wasted on this series.


    The series has had its fill of Trump references to last a lifetime. Even the showrunners hit the breaks on Lex taking the presidency....for now.

    I'm suspecting his OS will be consumed by his "relatives" again, and as mentioned days ago, I sense this will lead to a (forced) return of Legion characters to the series, in time for their "Crisis."

    ...only if she's susceptible to the effects of whiny speeches about why she was lied to all along. Lena has all of the motiviation and potential to be a true villain, which would be a logical path for the character to take, since she claimed she's tried to escape the legacy of her brother, but it would be fitting--and good for the series--if in the end, she becomes a greater threat with no redemption arc.
     
  16. Jason Voorhees

    Jason Voorhees Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Sons of Liberty would need to be rewritten as well. There more fitting as Neo-Nazis than actual Nazi's. Making them foot soldiers of the government doesn't really work. Also I think Lockwood could have a semi-reform moment. Where he does team up with Supergirl to stop Lex has a chance to make peace with his son before going to prison and for a moment you think he might go there but instead the hate is to strong and he can't make that leap.

    Basically a chance were for one moment he might be the man he was back when he was a college proffesor but it doesn't last. That's sort of how I look at people. Everyone has good in them but for some they have become so hardened and cynical and angry it's hard for them to access those feelings anymore.

    Jason
     
  17. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Frankly, my opinion of the Ben Lockwood and Agent Liberty storyline is something that I think was badly handled and that's something that I am reluctant to admit. I was really excited about the storyline at the beginning of it but it felt like they couldn't carry the football to the goal. The message got muddled, confused, and bluntly even if I agree with the messgae-I felt like they weren't conveying it well.

    For me, I think they should have stopped trying to go with, "The Sons of Liberty are just like everybody else" idea that is confused and wrong. I live in a state with lots of Neo-Nazis, Neo-Confederates, cult-militias, and guys who try to form Border Patrols to beat up and kidnap Mexicans.

    They are NOT normal. I live in the Reddest State in the Union and they're considered evil criminals and scum.

    They are the far crazy extreme of their professed belief and some are domestic terrorists. Compare the Sons of Liberty to the KKK, Timothy McVeigh, and other people. If you're going to make Ben Lockwood the head of the Department of Homeland Security then you should do it BEFORE he's been locked up for targeting people's children.

    Simultaneously, I think it would have been better to make Manchester Black and company only interested in killing BenLockwood's followers while Supergirl is forced to try to protect them. Also don't try and make John's anger at Manchester Black some big defining moment. He seems more angry at Manchester Black than the actual fucking Nazis. If you want a "Jonn is forced to kill" then have Manchester Black plan to kill Ben's son not Ben himself.

    Then have Jonn kill Manchester Black to save him.

    Then have Ben Lockwood expose himself as Agent Liberyt and get locked up THEN have Lex Luthor come into play.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You say that like there's a difference.
     
  19. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    The elite were completely wasted and irrelevant to the main story arc. I would have preferred them to get their powers from the serum, and be the new beloved HUMAN heroes, juxtaposed with our normal trio of alien superheroes. Not sure how that could fit into the sons of liberty storyline, but would have been more true to the comics elite. They could have had extreme methods and been against humans AND aliens extremists or something, and respond in extreme kind.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The rank and file of the original Nazis (10s of millions of Germans) were not exceptionally racist and xenophobic compared to anyone else from that era. They were just poor people, coming out of the great depression, who accepted a job from their government, without being aware that their government was completely unhinged.

    The Sons of Liberty to the last man, are extremely racist, hateful and xenophobic, and NO ONE IS PAYING THEM to harass, round up and murder aliens.

    Were there any daughters of Liberty?

    Was their recruitment policy very sexist or are women put to work in other fields in this hate group, which is sexual segregation and also bad.