Super Hi Res Enterprise

[CaptainHawk1]

Canon = The name "Daedalus class."

Canon = The U.S.S. Essex was this class.

Canon = A desktop model on Sisko's desk with the name "U.S.S. Horizon NCC-176."

Canon = Around the year 2153 or so, an Earth Cargo Vessel exists with the name "ECS Horizon." A former crewmember happens to own a book called "Chicago Gangs."

Canon = In the year 2168, a Federation Starfleet vessel named the U.S.S. Horizon made first contact with Sigma Iotia, leaving behind a book called "Chicago Mobs of the Twenties."

Official = The Daedalus class starship is the same design as the desktop model, and the Essex, (U.S.S.) Horizon, and Archon are members of these classes. (Star Trek Encyclopedia).


Until there's visual evidence to the contrary, there's no reason not to assume that the Encyclopedia is wrong. The mobs book is just a sight gag, not to be taken seriously (and it's highly unlikely that the Mayweather family cargo ship and the Federation Starfleet vessel Horizon are the same ship, for a multitude of reasons).

HUH??? Canon and Offical are the same thing and the Encyclopeida ain't canon unless it's verfied on-screen.

Paramount's Offical Stand on canon is on-screen only, minus TAS. It's not a queston of assuming that the Encyclopedia is wrong it's just not an official source.

How the times have changed though. 8 years ago I was banging the drum on Trek reference books written by production staff being considered canon (as was Paramount's old official stand, pre-2003) and I was criticized for it and now when Paramount doesn't consider those books canon now everybody wants to.

-Shawn

 

[Captain Robert April]

TAS is canon. It wasn't ever noncanon, just off limits for a whlie until the legal issues with Filmation were cleared up, which they have been.

 

[Kpnuts]

The Daedalus class name and design is canon.

TAS is not.

Robert April isn't either.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The Daedalus class name and design is canon.

The "Daedalus design" is not canon. That a globe-hulled ship might have exited prior to the "Pasteur" in "All Good Things" is canon.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Anyone care to count up all the TAS references in DS9 and ENT?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^ and those references became canon when -- and only when -- they showed up in DS9 and ENT.

I'll be happy to admit that Captain Robert April was the Enterprises first Captain if Abrams or someone else decides to put that reference on film.

 

[number6]

I'll be happy to admit that Captain Robert April was the Enterprises first Captain if Abrams or someone else decides to put that reference on film.

Pretty much my sentiment. Though as a fan of TAS, I've always liked it when some stray tidbit would show up in live action. I was hoping Robert April would be one of those.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Daedalus class name and design is canon.

The "Daedalus design" is not canon. That a globe-hulled ship might have exited prior to the "Pasteur" in "All Good Things" is canon.

Technically, if it was on the DS9 Ops office room set it was considered mostly canon. Never 100% official because it was never seen in action on-screen as a CGI or photographic model but it was official enough that the Daedalus design is considered canon to most official sources.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Technically, if it was on the DS9 Ops office room set it was considered mostly canon. Never 100% official because it was never seen in action on-screen as a CGI or photographic model but it was official enough that the Daedalus design is considered canon to most official sources.

It's not canon.

What was seen on the DS9 set was a model with the (illegible on TV) label "Horizon" on it. Even had it been explicitly identified as "the Horizon" that wouldn't make it automatically a Daedalus class vessel because 1) the listing of the Horizon as a Daedalus is not canon itself and 2) there can be more than one ship in history with the same name.

The producers could trot out a saucer-hulled (or any other shape) vessel tomorrow, dub it the "Horizon," call it a Daedalus class and not have violated anything established officially up to this point.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Anyone care to count up all the TAS references in DS9 and ENT?

It doesn't matter. Just because the other series used the some of the material, it doesn't make TAS canon. TAS also has the Enterprise... so what? DS9 and ENT are canon. Material in TAS isn't canon unless it's used in a canon series.

Sorry, just because you wish it does not make it so.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/help/faqs/faq/676.html

The Daedalus Class is canon however, the paper towel tubes with the softballs on it is not officially the Daedalus Class.

The poster is correct, Robert April is not canon but he will be as he will be mentioned in the new film which is ironic because our Captain Robert April won't considerthe new film canon.

-Shawn

 

[Semah]

The poster is correct, Robert April is not canon but he will be as he will be mentioned in the new film which is ironic because our Captain Robert April won't considerthe new film canon.

-Shawn

Which means he may never know. Sad, really.


Weren't parts of TAS Yesteryear considered canon, though?

 

[CaptainHawk1]

The poster is correct, Robert April is not canon but he will be as he will be mentioned in the new film which is ironic because our Captain Robert April won't considerthe new film canon.

-Shawn

Which means he may never know. Sad, really.


Weren't parts of TAS Yesteryear considered canon, though?

They're only considered canon if verfied by actual on-screen canon from the live-action or films.

-Shawn

 

[cooleddie74]

The poster is correct, Robert April is not canon but he will be as he will be mentioned in the new film which is ironic because our Captain Robert April won't considerthe new film canon.

-Shawn

Which means he may never know. Sad, really.


Weren't parts of TAS Yesteryear considered canon, though?

The kas'wahn ritual...Shir'kahr...those sorts of things, yes.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

The poster is correct, Robert April is not canon but he will be as he will be mentioned in the new film which is ironic because our Captain Robert April won't considerthe new film canon.

-Shawn

Which means he may never know. Sad, really.


Weren't parts of TAS Yesteryear considered canon, though?

The kas'wahn ritual...Shir'kahr...those sorts of things, yes.

Don't forget the introduction of the sehlat which was mentioned in JtB but shown in Yeateryear and used as the template for the sehlat in ENT.

Also, The Klingon logo was first shown in TAS.

-Shawn

 

[cooleddie74]

Which means he may never know. Sad, really.


Weren't parts of TAS Yesteryear considered canon, though?

The kas'wahn ritual...Shir'kahr...those sorts of things, yes.

Don't forget the introduction of the sehlat which was mentioned in JtB but shown in Yeateryear and used as the template for the sehlat in ENT.

Also, The Klingon logo was first shown in TAS.

-Shawn

True! Good catches.

Actually, the first time we see the Klingon Empire "dagger/arrowhead" logo is in "Elaan of Troyius"...in the background of the bridge of the D7 cruiser that tails and takes potshots at the Enterprise.

 

[Captain Robert April]

In the same way that you can't be only partly pregnant, TAS isn't partly canon. In Kor's last episode on DS9, he makes reference to his old ship, the Klothos, which is a direct reference to TAS' "Time Trap". In another episode, Garak makes a reference to Edosian orchids, a reference to the home planet of Lt. Arex. And so on and so on.

It aired on NBC, it was partially produced by Paramount, had the direct involvement of Gene Roddenberry, D.C. Fontana, David Gerrold, and several other TOS writers, had Shatner as Kirk, Nimoy as Spock, Kelly as McCoy, Doohan as Scotty, Takei as Sulu, Nichols as Uhura, Barrett as Chapel and the ship's computer, it has just as much of a claim of canonicity as any other Paramount Star Trek production. The only reason TAS was set aside from being used as a reference for several years was because of the legal complications of the shutdown of Filmation; once that was wrapped up, the references started sneaking in and the DVD package finally came out.

TAS is canon. Deal with it.

 

[Dukhat]

HUH??? Canon and Offical are the same thing and the Encyclopeida ain't canon unless it's verfied on-screen.

Uh, no. Canon is what is shown on the screen. Official is any Paramount licensed publication. Two different things. And if something shown on the screen contradicts something printed in an official publication, then the publication is invalidated.

Of course, something shown on screen can also contradict something else shown on screen, but that's a whole different can of worms.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Actually, the first time we see the Klingon Empire "dagger/arrowhead" logo is in "Elaan of Troyius"...in the background of the bridge of the D7 cruiser that tails and takes potshots at the Enterprise.

Plus, that trifoil design was on the ship the whole time. There may not have been any good camera angles to show it off, but the AMT model came out in '67, so it was pretty easy to see what it looked like.

 

[Tom Servo]

In the same way that you can't be only partly pregnant, TAS isn't partly canon. In Kor's last episode on DS9, he makes reference to his old ship, the Klothos, which is a direct reference to TAS' "Time Trap". In another episode, Garak makes a reference to Edosian orchids, a reference to the home planet of Lt. Arex. And so on and so on.

It aired on NBC, it was partially produced by Paramount, had the direct involvement of Gene Roddenberry, D.C. Fontana, David Gerrold, and several other TOS writers, had Shatner as Kirk, Nimoy as Spock, Kelly as McCoy, Doohan as Scotty, Takei as Sulu, Nichols as Uhura, Barrett as Chapel and the ship's computer, it has just as much of a claim of canonicity as any other Paramount Star Trek production. The only reason TAS was set aside from being used as a reference for several years was because of the legal complications of the shutdown of Filmation; once that was wrapped up, the references started sneaking in and the DVD package finally came out.

TAS is canon. Deal with it.

No it's not. Deal with it. It may be for you, and thats fine, but in the official canon world...the life action films and shows, it is not.

 

[Captain Robert April]

That's the best comeback you can muster? "No it's not"? That's not refutation, that's just simple naysaying.